Messages in this thread

Sib. 6.2: Exporting/Importing Instrument Defini... - John Murdoch, 28 Apr 02:11PM
     Re: Sib. 6.2: Exporting/Importing Instrument De... - Daniel Spreadbury, 28 Apr 03:33PM
         Re: Sib. 6.2: Exporting/Importing Instrument De... - Mats, 28 Apr 06:28PM
             Re: Sib. 6.2: Exporting/Importing Instrument De... - Daniel Spreadbury, 28 Apr 09:35PM
                 Re: Sib. 6.2: Exporting/Importing Instrument De... - Mats, 29 Apr 08:24PM
                     Re: Sib. 6.2: Exporting/Importing Instrument De... - Daniel Spreadbury, 29 Apr 09:12PM
                         Re: Sib. 6.2: Exporting/Importing Instrument De... - Mats, 01 May 12:04PM
                             Re: Sib. 6.2: Exporting/Importing Instrument De... - Daniel Spreadbury, 01 May 10:40PM
                                 Re: Sib. 6.2: Exporting/Importing Instrument De... - Mats, 02 May 04:27PM
                                     Re: Sib. 6.2: Exporting/Importing Instrument De... - Daniel Spreadbury, 02 May 07:25PM
                                         Re: Sib. 6.2: Exporting/Importing Instrument De... - Mats, 02 May 08:20PM
                                             Re: Sib. 6.2: Exporting/Importing Instrument De... - Daniel Spreadbury, 02 May 08:32PM

Sib. 6.2: Exporting/Importing Instrument Definitions (Hauptwerk)
Posted by John Murdoch - 28 Apr 02:11PM
Is it possible to create a style sheet with Instrument Definitions, and nothing else? So a user can import a style sheet to add an ensemble, family, and instruments that refer to a custom Sound Set--without changing Text styles?

Explanation:
Sibelius, as the Reference Guide states on page 633 (8.14 Edit Instruments), ships with 600+ instruments.

Alas, Hauptwerk users need a few more. Sibelius 6 has one instrument named "Organ [manuals]" and another named "Ped. [Organ pedals]". Hauptwerk users can play as many as five manuals, plus the pedals. (Users of theater organs can also play what are called "second touch" notes--which creates another four manuals. Theater organ guys are insane.) All told, Hauptwerk users need 11 instruments--Sibelius only gives us two.

Each of those manuals uses a fixed MIDI channel. I've been working for the past couple of days to create my own Sound Set, with new SoundIDs. I have used House Style > Edit Instruments to create a new Hauptwerk ensemble, and revised the Keyboard family to include all of the organ manuals. My style sheet now correctly assigns the proper SoundID for a given instrument--and the proper MIDI channel assignment (and the SoundID) show up correctly in the Sibelius Mixer. Best of all, the right sounds actually occur. Things are groovy. (See the attached PNG of Sibelius Mixer to see the results.)

Now, however, I want to share my work with other Hauptwerk users. I can easily distribute my Sound Set file, and my Playback Devices file; the problem comes with the instruments. Since the ensemble, family, and instrument definitions are embedded in that style sheet, a user has to import that style sheet to take advantage of those instruments.

But doing so will also import all the text styles from my style sheet--which will stomp on whatever text styles he or she already has. I can mimic a few of the stock style sheets--but that means re-defining the ensemble, family, and instrument data for essentially each font. Which seems hopelessly un-Sibelius-ish.

When you guys ship a new release, you don't re-edit the instrument list in each of the stock style sheets, do you?
Attachment Sibelius 6 Mixer screen shot.png (126K)

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Re: Sib. 6.2: Exporting/Importing Instrument Definitions (Hauptwerk)
Posted by Daniel Spreadbury - 28 Apr 03:33PM
No, I'm afraid you can't import and export instrument definitions completely independently of other house style elements.

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Re: Sib. 6.2: Exporting/Importing Instrument Definitions (Hauptwerk)
Posted by Mats - 28 Apr 06:28PM
Daniel, is this on "future version list"? Engraving has *nothing* to do with performance/play back (and v.vs.) and Sibelius need to separate these 'worlds' IMO.

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Re: Sib. 6.2: Exporting/Importing Instrument Definitions (Hauptwerk)
Posted by Daniel Spreadbury - 28 Apr 09:35PM (edited 29 Apr 09:12PM)
Instrument definitions are much more than performance and playback settings.

Instrument definitions use staff types and clefs. Staff types use noteheads. Noteheads use symbols. Clefs also use symbols. Symbols use text styles. So instrument definitions depend on noteheads, symbols and text styles.

So no, we have no plans to change this.

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Re: Sib. 6.2: Exporting/Importing Instrument Definitions (Hauptwerk)
Posted by Mats - 29 Apr 08:24PM
I assume John want to reproduce the score on various HW sound sets. How is this solved in Sib?

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Re: Sib. 6.2: Exporting/Importing Instrument Definitions (Hauptwerk)
Posted by Daniel Spreadbury - 29 Apr 09:12PM
He can just create a manuscript paper that includes his defined instruments and supply that along with his sound set.

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Contact Sibelius technical help by phone (charges may apply):
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Re: Sib. 6.2: Exporting/Importing Instrument Definitions (Hauptwerk)
Posted by Mats - 01 May 12:04PM
Yes, but the other way? If I have a perfect engraved score and want to use a HW sound set, how do I get that into my score *without* resetting any layout settings?

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Re: Sib. 6.2: Exporting/Importing Instrument Definitions (Hauptwerk)
Posted by Daniel Spreadbury - 01 May 10:40PM
You would go to House Style > Edit Instruments and edit the instruments in use in the score accordingly.

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Re: Sib. 6.2: Exporting/Importing Instrument Definitions (Hauptwerk)
Posted by Mats - 02 May 04:27PM
Is there some "batch import" way? Assume stops A, B, C is used from a MNO organ, then I want to use the same stops from a PQR organ. How do I change the sound sets without having to redefine 80+ stops? A orchestra Trumpet is easy - it's a 'Trumpet' (unless you have a Trumpet from Yamaha, and another from ... etc). Organ - quite different I think.

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Re: Sib. 6.2: Exporting/Importing Instrument Definitions (Hauptwerk)
Posted by Daniel Spreadbury - 02 May 07:25PM
The way to batch import settings is using house styles (as I'm sure you know).

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Contact Sibelius technical help by phone (charges may apply):
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Re: Sib. 6.2: Exporting/Importing Instrument Definitions (Hauptwerk)
Posted by Mats - 02 May 08:20PM
Yes, HS I know - and use with success.
But can the 'visual' attributes be isolated from the 'audio' attributes?
My visual settings are of no interest when it comes to change organ sounds. This any professional engraver/musician know. Layout has little (if anything) to do with the sound. I would like to use 1 (graphical) layout and apply 3-4 different sound sets *without* having to maintain 3-4 HS that looks *exactly* the same, in regards to layout. Thus, the question was if it was possible to (batch) import the sound sets and *not* have to maintain identical HS - I see no real use in duplicating maintenance of HS.

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Re: Sib. 6.2: Exporting/Importing Instrument Definitions (Hauptwerk)
Posted by Daniel Spreadbury - 02 May 08:32PM
You can change the playback configuration to change the playback sound without importing any house style files, but if you need to change detailed settings in instrument definitions or in the playback dictionary, you have to import a house style.

As I've explained, it's not practical for house styles to divorce the visual- and playback-related settings, because of the complex dependencies between them.

--
Contact Sibelius technical help by email:
http://www.sibelius.com/cgi-bin/helpcenter/tech.pl

Contact Sibelius technical help by phone (charges may apply):
USA & Canada: +1 650-731-6106
UK: +44 (0)20 7561 7997
Australia: 1300 652 172
Other countries: www.sibelius.com/support

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Messages in this thread

Sib. 6.2: Exporting/Importing Instrument Defini... - John Murdoch, 28 Apr 02:11PM
     Re: Sib. 6.2: Exporting/Importing Instrument De... - Daniel Spreadbury, 28 Apr 03:33PM
         Re: Sib. 6.2: Exporting/Importing Instrument De... - Mats, 28 Apr 06:28PM
             Re: Sib. 6.2: Exporting/Importing Instrument De... - Daniel Spreadbury, 28 Apr 09:35PM
                 Re: Sib. 6.2: Exporting/Importing Instrument De... - Mats, 29 Apr 08:24PM
                     Re: Sib. 6.2: Exporting/Importing Instrument De... - Daniel Spreadbury, 29 Apr 09:12PM
                         Re: Sib. 6.2: Exporting/Importing Instrument De... - Mats, 01 May 12:04PM
                             Re: Sib. 6.2: Exporting/Importing Instrument De... - Daniel Spreadbury, 01 May 10:40PM
                                 Re: Sib. 6.2: Exporting/Importing Instrument De... - Mats, 02 May 04:27PM
                                     Re: Sib. 6.2: Exporting/Importing Instrument De... - Daniel Spreadbury, 02 May 07:25PM
                                         Re: Sib. 6.2: Exporting/Importing Instrument De... - Mats, 02 May 08:20PM
                                             Re: Sib. 6.2: Exporting/Importing Instrument De... - Daniel Spreadbury, 02 May 08:32PM