Sibelius - the leading music composition and notation software

I edit lead sheets and do extensive editing on note/lyric positioning. Even if I impose a magnetic freeze on a measure I've edited, I still cannot move an existing note up or down, or add a note without the rest of the notes in the measure readjusting. If I reset the notes, nothing changes. It's driving me mad! How can I freeze a measure/measures so that I can add/edit notes without altering the note configuration already mapped out and edited?

Thanks for the help.

Re: Sib. 6.2: freezing notes
Posted by Martin P. Kellogg - 02 Aug 05:20AM

Hide picture

I'm not sure exactly what you mean. Magnetic layout affects objects other than notes, not notes themselves.

If you can post a screen shot, or even better a score, illustrating the problem, it would help.

--
Martin

Sibelius 6.2; Intel Core 2 Duo 2.26 GHz, 4 GB RAM (3 GB accessible), WinXP Pro SP3, two monitors, Echo Indigo IOx Express Card audio interface, KeyRig 49 -- year 2010

Re: Sib. 6.2: freezing notes
Posted by Daniel Spreadbury - 02 Aug 09:35AM

Hide picture

It sounds like you're trying to prevent the spacing from changing when you repitch a note, which I'm afraid isn't possible. Sibelius will always adjust the spacing in the affected area when you edit the score.

--
Contact Sibelius technical help by email:
http://www.avid.com/us/support/sf-login-digi

Contact Sibelius technical help by phone (charges may apply):
USA & Canada: +1 650-731-6106
UK: +44 (0)20 7561 7997
Australia: 1300 652 172
Other countries: www.sibelius.com/support

Re: Sib. 6.2: freezing notes
Posted by Clay Hecocks - 02 Aug 07:51PM

Hide picture

Hey Daniel,

thanks for the reply. You wrote: "It sounds like you're trying to prevent the spacing from changing when you repitch a note, which I'm afraid isn't possible." That doesn't make sense to me - I edit an entire measure to exactly where I want it, and since you cannot grab a note and move it but instead you have to move each note via Properties/General/X positioning, it's a very laborious task. Then if I want to simply add a harmony, or move a note up or down after proofing - you're telling me that there's no way to keep the entire measure from repositioning itself?! Honestly, that's not cool. Is there some kind of work-around? This and the inability to grab/move a note is to me a serious deficiency. Please advise.

Re: Sib. 6.2: freezing notes
Posted by Laurence Payne - 02 Aug 08:05PM

Hide picture

On Mon, 02 Aug 2010 19:51:41, "Clay Hecocks" <clay@calvaryftl.org>
wrote:

>Hey Daniel,
>
>thanks for the reply. You wrote: "It sounds like you're trying to prevent the
>spacing from changing when you repitch a note, which I'm afraid isn't possible."
>That doesn't make sense to me - I edit an entire measure to exactly where I want
>it, and since you cannot grab a note and move it but instead you have to move
>each note via Properties/General/X positioning, it's a very laborious task. Then
>if I want to simply add a harmony, or move a note up or down after proofing -
>you're telling me that there's no way to keep the entire measure from repositioning
>itself?! Honestly, that's not cool. Is there some kind of work-around? This and
>the inability to grab/move a note is to me a serious deficiency. Please advise.

I think you've discovered that fine adjustment of note-spacing is
something best done after all other aspects of the music are
finalised!

Re: Sib. 6.2: freezing notes
Posted by jay vilnai - 02 Aug 08:30PM

Hide picture

It is possible to move a note. I believe shift-alt-arrow right/left will nudge the position of a single note.

--
Jay Vilnai
Macbook Pro 2.4ghz, 4gb RAM, OS 10.6.3, Sibelius 6.2 & 5.4, Kontakt, Vienna Strings, Random Soundfonts, too many guitars

Re: Sib. 6.2: freezing notes
Posted by Daniel Spreadbury - 02 Aug 09:24PM

Hide picture

I think I'd need to see exactly what you're doing, Clay. Typically Sibelius does a good job of spacing notes automatically, and you can adjust the rules it uses if they're not to your liking, so it sounds like you may well be taking a very laborious route to something that would be much easier to do in a more conventional way.

--
Contact Sibelius technical help by email:
http://www.avid.com/us/support/sf-login-digi

Contact Sibelius technical help by phone (charges may apply):
USA & Canada: +1 650-731-6106
UK: +44 (0)20 7561 7997
Australia: 1300 652 172
Other countries: www.sibelius.com/support

Re: Sib. 6.2: freezing notes
Posted by Clay Hecocks - 02 Aug 09:26PM

Hide picture

Jay - yes, shift/option arrow will move the note, but it also causes all the other notes in the measure to move in the opposite direction, very much like a grab and move does. Very weird. The only way I have found to move a note without affecting the others is to highlight the note, go to Properties/General/X and click on the up/down arrow or manually add an amount.

Re: Sib. 6.2: freezing notes
Posted by Clay Hecocks - 02 Aug 09:37PM

Hide picture

Daniel,

I've attached a sib. file, if you move a note up or down or add a harmony for example, in m's 14 and 30 the notes change position. If you make an adjustment in m. 23 it affects m. 25. There are many other but these highlight the effect.

Thanks for the help,

Clay

Attachment

My Heart, Your Home.sib (85K)

Re: Sib. 6.2: freezing notes
Posted by Daniel Spreadbury - 03 Aug 01:02PM

Hide picture

I'm afraid the kinds of edits that you're making will cause Sibelius to respace, and there's nothing you can do about it.

My suggestion would be to look at the values in House Style > Note Spacing Rule, as several of the edits you seem to be making semi-consistently are possible to set as defaults there, e.g. increasing the amount of space at the end of a bar by default.

--
Contact Sibelius technical help by email:
http://www.avid.com/us/support/sf-login-digi

Contact Sibelius technical help by phone (charges may apply):
USA & Canada: +1 650-731-6106
UK: +44 (0)20 7561 7997
Australia: 1300 652 172
Other countries: www.sibelius.com/support

Re: Sib. 6.2: freezing notes
Posted by Clay Hecocks - 04 Aug 07:58PM

Hide picture

Daniel,

the default spacing in Sibelius is for the most part great, especially for instrumental scores. The problem for me is the vast majority of the work I do is lead sheets, where the spacing that Sibelius uses is often awkward visually when there are longer words used. Before I edited the score I sent you, it was improperly spaced, again because of the various length of words used in conjunction with the accompanying rhythms. That's why I need the ability to edit and move notes/chords/lyrics around. Can you explain what it is Magnetic Freeze does? I'm surprised that doesn't solve the problem, and it also makes me question it's function. Is there any hope of a "fix" on either one of these issues: the inability to move a note independently (outside of Properties/General/X) or the ability to freeze a measure/measures in order to edit at any given time without unwanted respacing? Again, thanks for all your help and time.

Clay

Re: Sib. 6.2: freezing notes
Posted by Daniel Spreadbury - 04 Aug 08:14PM

Hide picture

The purpose of Freeze Magnetic Layout Positions is to, er, freeze the positions of objects that are affected by Magnetic Layout, which is pretty much everything other than notes. Magnetic Layout doesn't affect note spacing, so Freeze Magnetic Layout Positions won't do anything to spacing.

Being able to "lock" note spacing is on our wish list for future versions, but I can't provide any indication about when it might be included.

--
Contact Sibelius technical help by email:
http://www.avid.com/us/support/sf-login-digi

Contact Sibelius technical help by phone (charges may apply):
USA & Canada: +1 650-731-6106
UK: +44 (0)20 7561 7997
Australia: 1300 652 172
Other countries: www.sibelius.com/support

Re: Sib. 6.2: freezing notes
Posted by Clay Hecocks - 04 Aug 08:23PM

Hide picture

Well, if you're looking for support to press your programmers for the ability to "lock" note spacing in a future version, then count me in! (Don't forget the ability to move individual notes more efficiently while you're at it!)

Thanks for your help and for getting back to all my posts so quickly,

Clay

Re: Sib. 6.2: freezing notes
Posted by Jody Hughes - 04 Aug 09:25PM

Hide picture

Hi there

Looking at your score, I think you might find it easier to ask Sibelius not to allow space for lyrics. (House Style>Note Spacing Rule... and, under 'Lyrics', untick the top box.)

(Reset the note positioning and spacing to default, and set Magnetic Layout back to default for the lyrics. Then Reset Position for the lyrics.)

Then you can manually drag some of the lyrics left or right to clear them from one another, without moving the notes at all. If you can accept spacing like the first page of the attached, you can do most of this without touching the default note spacing, which means it won't adjust when you edit a note.

The highlight marks the only place on the first page where I had to adjust the note spacing (for 'through and through' which is very demanding of space).

Hope that helps

Jeremy
--
music editor/engraver
Sibelius 6.2 | iMac | OS X Version 10.6.4 Snow Leopard

Attachment

My Heart, Your Home.sib (84K)

Re: Sib. 6.2: freezing notes
Posted by Clay Hecocks - 04 Aug 10:05PM

Hide picture

Hey Jeremy,

really appreciate it. Yeah, I've toyed with both methods, and initially I preferred to see what Sibelius would do with House/Note Spacing/Lyrics" checked and then proceed, but with some of the spacing hurdles I've encountered, I think you're probably right. I might try a hybrid and have Sib space lyrics for me automatically, and then highlight the measures in question, uncheck the "lyrics", and then re-space (Shift/Command/N) and go from there. Thanks again.

Clay

Re: Sib. 6.2: freezing notes
Posted by privyet - 06 Jul 03:36AM

Hide picture

I have two instruments running senza misura (with bars extending for the entire system length and with bar lines turned off using special no-bar-lines instruments). I have positioned the notes exactly where I want them with dashed lines and arrows pointing to each other's notes, after many hours of work. Now I want to print the parts. I add an ossia staff for instrument 1 and copy and paste the contents of bar/system of instrument 2 into the ossia staff. This repositions all the notes in the main instrument 1 staff, even though I didn't change anything in that staff. It's frustrating.

Quick reply

Messages in this thread

Sib. 6.2: freezing notes - Clay Hecocks, 02 Aug 04:10AM

Re: Sib. 6.2: freezing notes - Martin P. Kellogg, 02 Aug 05:20AM

Re: Sib. 6.2: freezing notes - Daniel Spreadbury, 02 Aug 09:35AM

Re: Sib. 6.2: freezing notes - Clay Hecocks, 02 Aug 07:51PM

Re: Sib. 6.2: freezing notes - Laurence Payne, 02 Aug 08:05PM

Re: Sib. 6.2: freezing notes - jay vilnai, 02 Aug 08:30PM

Re: Sib. 6.2: freezing notes - Daniel Spreadbury, 02 Aug 09:24PM

Re: Sib. 6.2: freezing notes - Clay Hecocks, 02 Aug 09:26PM

Re: Sib. 6.2: freezing notes - Clay Hecocks, 02 Aug 09:37PM

Re: Sib. 6.2: freezing notes - Daniel Spreadbury, 03 Aug 01:02PM

Re: Sib. 6.2: freezing notes - Clay Hecocks, 04 Aug 07:58PM

Re: Sib. 6.2: freezing notes - Daniel Spreadbury, 04 Aug 08:14PM

Re: Sib. 6.2: freezing notes - Clay Hecocks, 04 Aug 08:23PM

Re: Sib. 6.2: freezing notes - Jody Hughes, 04 Aug 09:25PM

Re: Sib. 6.2: freezing notes - Clay Hecocks, 04 Aug 10:05PM

Re: Sib. 6.2: freezing notes - privyet, 06 Jul 03:36AM