'Sib. 6.1: Flipping tuplets'

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Sib. 6.1: Flipping tuplets - Philip Sparke, 22 Jun 11:15AM
     Re: Sib. 6.1: Flipping tuplets - Matthew Fields, 22 Jun 01:29PM
         Re: Sib. 6.1: Flipping tuplets - Philip Sparke, 22 Jun 01:52PM
             Re: Sib. 6.1: Flipping tuplets - Daniel Spreadbury, 22 Jun 11:19PM
                 Re: Sib. 6.1: Flipping tuplets - Philip Sparke, 23 Jun 09:12AM
                     Re: Sib. 6.1: Flipping tuplets - Daniel Spreadbury, 25 Jun 11:40AM
                         Re: Sib. 6.1: Flipping tuplets - Philip Sparke, 25 Jun 11:52AM
                             Re: Sib. 6.1: Flipping tuplets - Bruce W Dailey, 21 Jul 12:26AM
                                 Re: Sib. 6.1: Flipping tuplets - Bob Zawalich, 21 Jul 05:09AM

Sib. 6.1: Flipping tuplets
Posted by Philip Sparke - 22 Jun 11:15AM
I'm producing a score with lots of bracketed crotchet triplets and can't find an engraving rule that covers every situation.

I don't know if I'm right, but I think the rule 'position bracket as if all notes were beamed together' would better copy the slur rule by being 'position brackets on mixed stems above the notes' as I have always thought this to be the accepted practice.

An example of where the present option looks wrong to me would be a crotchet triplet of F4/F5/E5 where the bracket appears below the notes. I would have thought it should be above.

Am I missing something??

--
Philip Sparke - Anglo Music Press
Sib 6.1 Windows 7, 2.93 GHz i7 Quad Core 8 GB RAM
M-Audio Audiophile 2496
www.philipsparke.com
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Re: Sib. 6.1: Flipping tuplets
Posted by Matthew Fields - 22 Jun 01:29PM
On stem-side, I have always adjusted the endpoints of brackets to match where a beam would be if there were a beam. On head-side I adjust it to embrace all the noteheads--which is Sibelius's default on both sides, but looks a bit sloppy on stem-side.

By default, I place the brackets on stem-side, but I'll flip it to head-side when stem-side is cluttered with other things, or on high multi-ledger-line flute parts where I judge stem-side to be too far from the noteheads, or when it is part of a whole series of tuplets on the same side of the staff (above or below).

Legibility is the primary concern.

To deduce the rule-sets of various publishers, one could look through their publications for examples or write them directly asking for their stylesheets and rules.
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Splendor in Sound! [Sib6.1,XP-SP2,3.4GHz,3Gb]
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Re: Sib. 6.1: Flipping tuplets
Posted by Philip Sparke - 22 Jun 01:52PM
Thanks for yor reply, Matthew, but my post is purely about the 'over or below' position of the brackets. I find the actual position relative to the notes/stems easy to adjust.

I always put brackets at the stem end but the problem occurs with groups of mixed stems. I would like the bracket in these cases always to go above the group, but the programme doesn't give this option, though it does with respect to slurs.

The option 'position tuplets as if all notes were beamed together' results in the attached example. I would like the bracket to be above in both these cases so would like to have the option 'position brackets on mixed stems above the notes'.

I can't see a way to achieve this default.

--
Philip Sparke - Anglo Music Press
Sib 6.1 Windows 7, 2.93 GHz i7 Quad Core 8 GB RAM
M-Audio Audiophile 2496
www.philipsparke.com
Attachment Beam example.sib (29K)
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Re: Sib. 6.1: Flipping tuplets
Posted by Daniel Spreadbury - 22 Jun 11:19PM
I agree that there is no way to achieve your preferred default of always having tuplets above the staff if the stem direction is mixed. We did consider this as the new default rule for tuplet bracket direction, but after much consultation with a number of engravers we settled upon the current rule.

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Re: Sib. 6.1: Flipping tuplets
Posted by Philip Sparke - 23 Jun 09:12AM
> I agree that there is no way to achieve your preferred default of always having tuplets above the staff if the stem direction is mixed. We did consider this as the new default rule for tuplet bracket direction, but after much consultation with a number of engravers we settled upon the current rule.

But does that mean it couldn't be made an option??

--
Philip Sparke - Anglo Music Press
Sib 6.1 Windows 7, 2.93 GHz i7 Quad Core 8 GB RAM
M-Audio Audiophile 2496
www.philipsparke.com
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Re: Sib. 6.1: Flipping tuplets
Posted by Daniel Spreadbury - 25 Jun 11:40AM
No, it doesn't mean that it couldn't be, but it does mean that it hasn't been.

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Contact Sibelius technical help by phone (charges may apply):
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Re: Sib. 6.1: Flipping tuplets
Posted by Philip Sparke - 25 Jun 11:52AM (edited 25 Jun 11:53AM)
:)

Then I'll wait till it possibly becomes an possibility......

--
Philip Sparke - Anglo Music Press
Sib 6.1 Windows 7, 2.93 GHz i7 Quad Core 8 GB RAM
M-Audio Audiophile 2496
www.philipsparke.com
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Re: Sib. 6.1: Flipping tuplets
Posted by Bruce W Dailey - 21 Jul 12:26AM
I'm working on a large opera score for Universal Music. Their design standards include this:
"N-tuplet brackets (e.g. for triplets) are always placed horizontally above the staff."
What I'm doing is:
1 - manually selecting all tuplets which, by default, display below the staff.
2 - typing "x" to flip them.
Selecting multiple tuplets is a slight efficiency (command-click). Also, selecting an entire bar and using Filter>Tuplets can help.
Does anyone have any other suggestions or knowledge about any plugins to accomplish this?
Thanks!
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Re: Sib. 6.1: Flipping tuplets
Posted by Bob Zawalich - 21 Jul 05:09AM
If there is a solution for this, it will not come from a plugin, at least at present, as plugins have no ability to flip a tuplet bracket or to ascertain its flipped state.

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Bob

Just a user of Sibelius. Sib 1.2 - 7, Windows 7 Pro SP 1 64 bit, 4 G RAM. Year 2014.
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Messages in this thread

Sib. 6.1: Flipping tuplets - Philip Sparke, 22 Jun 11:15AM
     Re: Sib. 6.1: Flipping tuplets - Matthew Fields, 22 Jun 01:29PM
         Re: Sib. 6.1: Flipping tuplets - Philip Sparke, 22 Jun 01:52PM
             Re: Sib. 6.1: Flipping tuplets - Daniel Spreadbury, 22 Jun 11:19PM
                 Re: Sib. 6.1: Flipping tuplets - Philip Sparke, 23 Jun 09:12AM
                     Re: Sib. 6.1: Flipping tuplets - Daniel Spreadbury, 25 Jun 11:40AM
                         Re: Sib. 6.1: Flipping tuplets - Philip Sparke, 25 Jun 11:52AM
                             Re: Sib. 6.1: Flipping tuplets - Bruce W Dailey, 21 Jul 12:26AM
                                 Re: Sib. 6.1: Flipping tuplets - Bob Zawalich, 21 Jul 05:09AM