'Sib. 6.1: Sibelius is not playing back dynamics'

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Sib. 6.1: Sibelius is not playing back dynamics - Patrick Burke, 24 Mar 02:03AM
     Re: Sib. 6.1: Sibelius is not playing back dyna... - Bob Zawalich, 24 Mar 02:45AM
         Re: Sib. 6.1: Sibelius is not playing back dyna... - Patrick Burke, 27 Mar 09:32PM
         Re: Sib. 6.1: Sibelius is not playing back dyna... - Patrick O'Keefe, 29 Mar 09:59PM
             Re: Sib. 6.1: Sibelius is not playing back dyna... - Bob Zawalich, 29 Mar 11:53PM
                 Re: Sib. 6.1: Sibelius is not playing back dyna... - Mark Isaacs, 30 Mar 12:13AM
                     Re: Sib. 6.1: Sibelius is not playing back dyna... - Joachim Hettich, 30 Mar 01:38AM
                         Re: Sib. 6.1: Sibelius is not playing back dyna... - Colin Graham, 30 Mar 01:48AM
                             Re: Sib. 6.1: Sibelius is not playing back dyna... - Rob Tuley, 30 Mar 04:50AM
                                 Re: Sib. 6.1: Sibelius is not playing back dyna... - Joachim Hettich, 30 Mar 05:20AM
                                 Re: Sib. 6.1: Sibelius is not playing back dyna... - Mark Isaacs, 30 Mar 05:39AM
                                     Re: Sib. 6.1: Sibelius is not playing back dyna... - Joachim Hettich, 30 Mar 07:39AM
                                         Re: Sib. 6.1: Sibelius is not playing back dyna... - Mark Isaacs, 30 Mar 07:43AM

Sib. 6.1: Sibelius is not playing back dynamics
Posted by Patrick Burke - 24 Mar 02:03AM (edited 24 Mar 02:04AM)
I imported a standard midi file from a midi sequence that I created in Logic, and Sibelius seems to be reading the velocities from the smf. The problem is that when I add new dynamics, Sibelius ignores the new dynamics during playback. (BTW, I have not used the "Add Dynamics from Live Playback" plug-in. It seems that Sibelius is using the dynamics from Logic regardless.) Suggestions? Thanks.
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Re: Sib. 6.1: Sibelius is not playing back dynamics
Posted by Bob Zawalich - 24 Mar 02:45AM (edited 24 Mar 02:45AM)
Turn off Play > Live Playback. If it is on, Sib playback ignores any dynamics in the score.

--
Bob

Sib 1.4 - 6.1, Windows 7 Pro 64 bit, 2.13 GHz Core 2 Duo; Audiophile 2496; 4 G RAM. Year 2010.
I am an experienced Sibelius user, but am not affiliated with Sibelius Software.
Sib Plugin downloads: http://www.sibelius.com/download/plugins
Plugin install instructions: http://www.sibelius.com/download/plugins/index.html?help=install
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Re: Sib. 6.1: Sibelius is not playing back dynamics
Posted by Patrick Burke - 27 Mar 09:32PM
Thanks, it worked! (I'm new to Sibelius 6.)
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Re: Sib. 6.1: Sibelius is not playing back dynamics
Posted by Patrick O'Keefe - 29 Mar 09:59PM
> Turn off Play > Live Playback. If it is on, Sib playback ignores any dynamics in the score.

I think there must be more to it than that. I seem to have dynamics played whether or not I've got Live Playback turned on. But I didn't have any Live Playback data in the score except for a couple measures where I manually added some.

Pat
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Re: Sib. 6.1: Sibelius is not playing back dynamics
Posted by Bob Zawalich - 29 Mar 11:53PM
It might actually be "Sibelius ignores dynamics when Live Playback is on and there is Live Playback data available".

It might well use dynamics if there is no overriding LP data. Daniel or someone else could probably say for sure.


--
Bob

Sib 1.4 - 6.1, Windows 7 Pro 64 bit, 2.13 GHz Core 2 Duo; Audiophile 2496; 4 G RAM. Year 2010.
I am an experienced Sibelius user, but am not affiliated with Sibelius Software.
Sib Plugin downloads: http://www.sibelius.com/download/plugins
Plugin install instructions: http://www.sibelius.com/download/plugins/index.html?help=install
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Re: Sib. 6.1: Sibelius is not playing back dynamics
Posted by Mark Isaacs - 30 Mar 12:13AM
To be honest I've been confused by your statement Bob since you made it.

My scores are full of dynamics. I usually also turn Live Playback on so I can tweak the volume of individual notes in the Properties window.

My dynamics play back still. And my Live velocities also play back.

In my own experience there is no link between the playback of score dynamics and Live Playback being on (with or without actual Live Playback data being available).

--
A composer www.markisaacs.com
Sibelius 6.1.0 build 14, Sibelius 5.2.5 build 37, Vista SP1, Intel quad CPU Q9450 2.66Ghz, 3GB RAM, 27'' monitor, M-Audio Audiophile 2496 soundcard, Bose Computer Music Monitor speakers, Sibelius Sounds Essentials, Sibelius Sounds, Garritan Personal Orchestra, Garritan Authorised Steinway.
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Re: Sib. 6.1: Sibelius is not playing back dynamics
Posted by Joachim Hettich - 30 Mar 01:38AM
You now have me confused Mark (I hope I am not causing offence by using your first name - I have not been on this forum for many years and, from observation, the use of first names currently seems to be the norm).

Taking an extreme example - if the dynamics in the score showed a crescendo but the live playback data was for a diminuendo then if live playback is on, Sib will play back the diminuendo, and if it's off it will play back the crescendo. So surely there IS a link between score dynamics and live playback being on.

Or am I being totally stupid here? (Wouldn't be the first nor, I fear, the last time.)

--
Joachim Hettich - aka Joe
Sib 6.1, Mac OS X 10.6 and Win 7 Ultimate 64
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Re: Sib. 6.1: Sibelius is not playing back dynamics
Posted by Colin Graham - 30 Mar 01:48AM
The reference manual specifically states that edits to Live Playback will override other dynamics, rits etc. when it is switched on. So if you have a note which has been edited to have live playback to make it louder, that will take precedence over a diminuendo written on the score (if Live Playback is on). If Live Playback is off, it will get softer...
So, I agree with Joe
--
Colin Graham
(ex Sib 4.0, now 6.1 and Windows 7)
http://colingraham.terapad.com/
Counter-tenor, recorder player, composer, SCORE user
Barbershop harmony singer, arranger & contest judge
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Re: Sib. 6.1: Sibelius is not playing back dynamics
Posted by Rob Tuley - 30 Mar 04:50AM
> So surely there IS a link between score dynamics and live playback being on.

There are two "controls" over live playback, globally and for individual notes.

Each note in the score either has live playback data, or not. In fact each note can have the three different items of live playback, (MIDI velocity, note start time, and note duration) or not, in any combination.

If a note has live playback data, the Properties window Playback panel has the relevant data items "ticked". You can edit the data values, or switch the data items on and off. (You don't have to do this one note at a time, you can select a passage and switch the data off for all the notes you selected).

If you import music from a MIDI file, every note will have all three live playback data items. The same applies if you enter music using Flexitime. It will usually apply if you import a MusicXML file (though strictly speaking MIDI data in MusicXML files is optional, not compulsory, so it depends what program created the MusicXML file).

If you enter notes with the mouse or computer keyboard, or with step time from a MIDI keyboard, those notes will not have any live playback data.

If the Live Playback icon is "on", then any live playback data that is in the score takes precedence over the dynamic markings. If the Live Playback icon is "off", all the live playback data is ignored.

So some possibilites are
* Every note has live playback data, the icon switches it all on or off.
* Originally, every note had live playback data, but you deleted the data from the notes where you want the Sibelius dynamics to play back.
* Originally, there was no live playback data, but you created it for a few notes (using the properties panel) to improve the Sibelius playback.
* There is no live playback data at all, so switching the icon on and off does nothing.

--
Rob

Sib 4.1, Win98SE, Athlon 3100, 512Mb, Audigy
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Re: Sib. 6.1: Sibelius is not playing back dynamics
Posted by Joachim Hettich - 30 Mar 05:20AM
Thank you Rob - that was my understanding but you put it much more clearly than I ever could.

--
Joachim Hettich - aka Joe
Sib 6.1, Mac OS X 10.6 and Win 7 Ultimate 64
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Re: Sib. 6.1: Sibelius is not playing back dynamics
Posted by Mark Isaacs - 30 Mar 05:39AM (edited 30 Mar 07:12AM)
This discussion has entered the realms of semantics, Venn diagrams and Boolean algebra. I must confess that I was not being wholly accurate with my language in saying there was NO linkage between Live Playback and score dynamics. At the time I was speaking about Bob's initial statement. I should have said that I believe that there is no linkage *of the sort that Bob describes* between Live Playback and score dynamics.

Bob said "Turn on Play > Live Playback. If it is on, Sib playback ignores any dynamics in the score". I do not believe this is true. That is, merely by switching on Live Playback as a function - without even any data being entered - all dynamics in the score will be ignored.

I'll try and spell out my own understanding.

1. Switching on Play>Live Playback in itself has NO effect on the rendering of score dynamics.
2. Entering Live Playback data will effect the rendering of score dynamics but only locally to the note(s) that have Live Performance data, wherein the Live Performance data takes precedence.
3. Even in the case of 2. it still may not be true that the score dynamic is "ignored" as many score dynamics apply globally for a passage length. If I indicate forte (f) and 64 bars later indicate piano (p)you get 64 bars of forte. If I change the Live Velocity of one note to make it very soft, then the score dynamic is being ignored *only for that note*. It would not be at all true to suggest that the score dynamic is "ignored" as a whole.

To me this is all like cumulative SSL mixing on an automated desk. If you imagine fader moves as entering dynamics then you could imagine the score dynamics as the first pass, and Live Playback as the 2nd pass. The way an SSL desk works is on the 2nd pass all your mixing moves from the first pass are retained *except* when you touch and move a fader. Then the new moves supersede the old ones but only until you remove your hand from the touch-sensitive fader whereby it immediately reverts to the data of the first pass.

What Bob said inside that analogy would mean that merely signalling to the computer your intention to do a 2nd pass deletes the moves from the first pass.


--
A composer www.markisaacs.com
Sibelius 6.1.0 build 14, Sibelius 5.2.5 build 37, Vista SP1, Intel quad CPU Q9450 2.66Ghz, 3GB RAM, 27'' monitor, M-Audio Audiophile 2496 soundcard, Bose Computer Music Monitor speakers, Sibelius Sounds Essentials, Sibelius Sounds, Garritan Personal Orchestra, Garritan Authorised Steinway.
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Re: Sib. 6.1: Sibelius is not playing back dynamics
Posted by Joachim Hettich - 30 Mar 07:39AM
As you say - it's getting a little cerebral but I suspect it's of interest to many Sib users as playback seems to have become as important as scorewriting. It's even of interest to me and I'm still stuck in the stoneage - transferring my music to Logic for polishing - a process that's getting harder to justify with each new release of Sibelius.

--
Joachim Hettich - aka Joe
Sib 6.1, Mac OS X 10.6 and Win 7 Ultimate 64
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Re: Sib. 6.1: Sibelius is not playing back dynamics
Posted by Mark Isaacs - 30 Mar 07:43AM (edited 30 Mar 07:46AM)
> As you say - it's getting a little cerebral but I suspect it's of interest to many Sib users as playback seems to have become as important as scorewriting. It's even of interest to me and I'm still stuck in the stoneage - transferring my music to Logic for polishing - a process that's getting harder to justify with each new release of Sibelius.
>
> --
> Joachim Hettich - aka Joe
> Sib 6.1, Mac OS X 10.6 and Win 7 Ultimate 64

I was observing that it was cerebral and one needed to be very pedantic to be clear, but I live my life on that basis so am quite happy with it being that way!

I was very sorry to read that I'd confused you, and now I hope I've unconfused you.

Oh - and please do feel free to call me Mark! It's very informal around here.

--
A composer www.markisaacs.com
Sibelius 6.1.0 build 14, Sibelius 5.2.5 build 37, Vista SP1, Intel quad CPU Q9450 2.66Ghz, 3GB RAM, 27'' monitor, M-Audio Audiophile 2496 soundcard, Bose Computer Music Monitor speakers, Sibelius Sounds Essentials, Sibelius Sounds, Garritan Personal Orchestra, Garritan Authorised Steinway.
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Messages in this thread

Sib. 6.1: Sibelius is not playing back dynamics - Patrick Burke, 24 Mar 02:03AM
     Re: Sib. 6.1: Sibelius is not playing back dyna... - Bob Zawalich, 24 Mar 02:45AM
         Re: Sib. 6.1: Sibelius is not playing back dyna... - Patrick Burke, 27 Mar 09:32PM
         Re: Sib. 6.1: Sibelius is not playing back dyna... - Patrick O'Keefe, 29 Mar 09:59PM
             Re: Sib. 6.1: Sibelius is not playing back dyna... - Bob Zawalich, 29 Mar 11:53PM
                 Re: Sib. 6.1: Sibelius is not playing back dyna... - Mark Isaacs, 30 Mar 12:13AM
                     Re: Sib. 6.1: Sibelius is not playing back dyna... - Joachim Hettich, 30 Mar 01:38AM
                         Re: Sib. 6.1: Sibelius is not playing back dyna... - Colin Graham, 30 Mar 01:48AM
                             Re: Sib. 6.1: Sibelius is not playing back dyna... - Rob Tuley, 30 Mar 04:50AM
                                 Re: Sib. 6.1: Sibelius is not playing back dyna... - Joachim Hettich, 30 Mar 05:20AM
                                 Re: Sib. 6.1: Sibelius is not playing back dyna... - Mark Isaacs, 30 Mar 05:39AM
                                     Re: Sib. 6.1: Sibelius is not playing back dyna... - Joachim Hettich, 30 Mar 07:39AM
                                         Re: Sib. 6.1: Sibelius is not playing back dyna... - Mark Isaacs, 30 Mar 07:43AM