'Sib. 6.1: Balancing number of bars per line'

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Sib. 6.1: Balancing number of bars per line - Elise Winters-Huete, 22 Feb 08:32PM
     Re: Sib. 6.1: Balancing number of bars per line - Stephen Dickinson, 22 Feb 09:11PM
         Re: Sib. 6.1: Balancing number of bars per line - Rob Tuley, 22 Feb 09:31PM
             - Kai Struck, 20 Jun 03:38PM
     Re: Sib. 6.1: Balancing number of bars per line - Jim Druckenmiller, 22 Feb 09:25PM
         Re: Sib. 6.1: Balancing number of bars per line - Frederick Willard, 20 Jun 09:36AM
             Re: Sib. 6.1: Balancing number of bars per line - Jeremy Hughes, 20 Jun 09:56AM
                 Re: Sib. 6.1: Balancing number of bars per line - Kai Struck, 20 Jun 03:40PM

Sib. 6.1: Balancing number of bars per line
Posted by Elise Winters-Huete - 22 Feb 08:32PM
I want to have Sibelius automatically balance the number of bars in each line. Instead, it is allowing (for example) 6 bars in several lines of music, and only 3 bars in other lines.

I can't solve the problem with auto-breaks at 4 bars / line because it's an odd number of bars.

Things that also don't work:
- Reset design (shift-ctrl-D)
- Turning "automatic breaks" on to jumble the score, then turning it off again (the score returns to the original unabalanced layout)

How can I avoid manually entering every system break each time I want to balance my bars?

Thanks!!!
Elise
Attachment Sample unbalanced.sib (44K)

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Re: Sib. 6.1: Balancing number of bars per line
Posted by Stephen Dickinson - 22 Feb 09:11PM
As a rule, I'm generally opposed to auto-balancing except for in very specific circumstances because it causes dumb results at times, but since you probably don't care, here's some tips that may help.

You can auto-break at any number of bars, so the simplest thing to do is to divide the number of bars by the number of systems you want. In your example, if I set it to 3, it works out. Failing that, you can try messing around with the "At or before settings:".

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Re: Sib. 6.1: Balancing number of bars per line
Posted by Rob Tuley - 22 Feb 09:31PM
There are music notation programs that look at the entire score to decide the "best" place for all the line breaks, but Sibelius isn't one of them, so you usually have to give it a bit of help.

You don't have to put in *all* the system breaks yourself. You just have to do enough to fix up the end of the score.

Sibelius puts as many bars as it can on all the lines except the last two, and then stretches out the remaining bars over the last two lines.

So, if the last two lines are too widely spaced, put a system break two lines from the end to "push" some more bars onto the last two lines. Sibelius will then stretch out the two lines before that system break. If that still looks bad, put another system break 4 lines before the end, etc.

That may not actually be the "best" way to do it. If you have some bars in the middle of the score with a lot of notes, it may be better to use a system break to force one fewer bar onto a line at that point, so Sibelius has another bar to use at the end of the score.

--
Rob

Sib 4.1, Win98SE, Athlon 3100, 512Mb, Audigy

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Posted by Kai Struck - 20 Jun 03:38PM (edited 20 Jun 03:40PM)

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Re: Sib. 6.1: Balancing number of bars per line
Posted by Jim Druckenmiller - 22 Feb 09:25PM (edited 22 Feb 09:44PM)
Hi Elise,

If you select a barline (any barline) and press the Enter/Return Key on your keyboard you'll create a System Break.

This is the best way to tell Sibelius where you want the measure break (or System Break to Sib) to happen.

If you have >View >Layout Marks turned on you'll see a little icon above the System Break. Selecting this and deleting it will remove the System Break.

When you have many more measures on the page you're going to want to learn about how the Page Break works as well. You can experiment with that easily and it too has it's own icon (which selected and deleted will remove the Page Break)

* ('Shift' + 'Enter/Return' creates the Page Break.)



Take Care,

Jim

-----------
[edit]- As a General Rule don't start 'dragging' barlines around to control the number that appear on any given line. Use the methods above first, and then for a 'fine tuning' of it's position a little drag/nudge is OK.


Sibelius has it's own kind of 'Flow' or 'Surface Tension' and at first you may not like what's happening. But the mistake here would be to start the 'Micro-Managing' too soon. Get your notes inputted, use the System Break, and Page Break where necessary/preferred. and then go back and fine tune after you've filled out a page or so.

Things just work better this way, albeit it's a little unsettling at first but that quickly wears off. (in about an hour or less, in my experience)





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Re: Sib. 6.1: Balancing number of bars per line
Posted by Frederick Willard - 20 Jun 09:36AM
The larger solution to these questions is always to try to make the page look like the music sounds. Specifically, use double bars and rehearsal marks (using measure numbers) whenever a new phrase begins. With few exceptions, a new phrase should begin at the beginning of the line for the player, and the line break should clarify the subdivision of the phrase. Sibelius does a great job on many things, but there is no substitute for attentive analysis of the phrase by the arranger from the start. Again, DOUBLE BARS AND REHEARSAL MARKS are the key to getting your chart played correctly the first time through.

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Re: Sib. 6.1: Balancing number of bars per line
Posted by Jeremy Hughes - 20 Jun 09:56AM
Hi there

Sorry, Frederick, I disagree with you, mainly because you phrase your advice as if it applies universally. Outside of jazz, I think most of this doesn't apply.

The aim of traditional music engraving is to balance the page so that note spacing doesn't change unduly from system to system. It's preferable for some things (like start repeats) to start a system, but only if the spacing isn't much disrupted.

I don't think new phrases need to start at the beginning of a system. I don't think line breaks should be used to clarify the subdivision of the phrase. Both of these have a tendency to disrupt the note spacing, and can make it harder, rather than easier, to sight-read.

You do not have to use rehearsal marks that show bar numbers, and you do not have to use double bars to mark new sections.

Jeremy
--
music editor/engraver
Sibelius 6.2 | iMac 3.2GHz i3 | OS X Version 10.6.7 Snow Leopard

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Re: Sib. 6.1: Balancing number of bars per line
Posted by Kai Struck - 20 Jun 03:40PM
> There are music notation programs that look at the entire score to decide the "best" place for all the line breaks, but Sibelius isn't one of them, so you usually have to give it a bit of help.
> Rob


Just curious, which programs do?

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Messages in this thread

Sib. 6.1: Balancing number of bars per line - Elise Winters-Huete, 22 Feb 08:32PM
     Re: Sib. 6.1: Balancing number of bars per line - Stephen Dickinson, 22 Feb 09:11PM
         Re: Sib. 6.1: Balancing number of bars per line - Rob Tuley, 22 Feb 09:31PM
             - Kai Struck, 20 Jun 03:38PM
     Re: Sib. 6.1: Balancing number of bars per line - Jim Druckenmiller, 22 Feb 09:25PM
         Re: Sib. 6.1: Balancing number of bars per line - Frederick Willard, 20 Jun 09:36AM
             Re: Sib. 6.1: Balancing number of bars per line - Jeremy Hughes, 20 Jun 09:56AM
                 Re: Sib. 6.1: Balancing number of bars per line - Kai Struck, 20 Jun 03:40PM