'Sib. 6.1: Multi-bar rests'

Messages in this thread

Sib. 6.1: Multi-bar rests - Janet Bordeaux, 29 Dec 12:16AM
     Re: Sib. 6.1: Multi-bar rests - Terry Carter, Rural Michigan USA, 29 Dec 01:08AM
         Re: Sib. 6.1: Multi-bar rests - Daniel Spreadbury, 29 Dec 11:19AM
             Re: Sib. 6.1: Multi-bar rests - Janet Bordeaux, 31 Dec 08:27AM
                 Re: Sib. 6.1: Multi-bar rests - Terry Carter, Rural Michigan USA, 31 Dec 10:01AM
                     Re: Sib. 6.1: Multi-bar rests - Janet Bordeaux, 31 Dec 06:46PM
                         Re: Sib. 6.1: Multi-bar rests - Terry Carter, Rural Michigan USA, 31 Dec 08:06PM
                             Re: Sib. 6.1: Multi-bar rests - Rob Tuley, 31 Dec 08:22PM
                             Re: Sib. 6.1: Multi-bar rests - Janet Bordeaux, 01 Jan 02:11AM
                         Re: Sib. 6.1: Multi-bar rests - Jim Druckenmiller, 31 Dec 08:28PM
                             Re: Sib. 6.1: Multi-bar rests - Janet Bordeaux, 01 Jan 02:13AM

Sib. 6.1: Multi-bar rests
Posted by Janet Bordeaux - 29 Dec 12:16AM
Whenever I have multi-bar rests, the measure with the I-bar symbol and the number in it is HUGE! Is there any way to shrink the size of this measure?

Please don't tell me to drag the bar line. For one thing, I've tried that and am not happy with the result - it seems to slide all the notes over on top of one another. AND it's too tedious to have to go through every score and adjust these things.

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Re: Sib. 6.1: Multi-bar rests
Posted by Terry Carter, Rural Michigan USA - 29 Dec 01:08AM (edited 29 Dec 01:10AM)
Post an example here so we can understand your situation and your definition of "huge."

Are you saying the number itself is too large?

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Re: Sib. 6.1: Multi-bar rests
Posted by Daniel Spreadbury - 29 Dec 11:19AM
You can go to the Bar Rests page of Engraving Rules and set 'Extra space for 10-bar multirests' to a smaller value, e.g. 0 spaces. You'll then find that all multirests are pretty narrow, regardless of the number of bars' rest they contain.

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Re: Sib. 6.1: Multi-bar rests
Posted by Janet Bordeaux - 31 Dec 08:27AM
Thanks for the replies! I followed Daniel's suggestion and it worked.

Terry, I don't really know how to "show" an example, but maybe I can clarify what my problem was. I have a score for flute and piano, and the flute has some long rests (15 bars in one place). When I pulled up the flute part, the measure with the 15-bar rest took up almost half of the line on the page. Not only does that look ugly, but it pushed the music into an extra page in length.

I hope that makes it clearer.

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Re: Sib. 6.1: Multi-bar rests
Posted by Terry Carter, Rural Michigan USA - 31 Dec 10:01AM (edited 31 Dec 10:07AM)
Janet, one way to post an example is to attach your score to your post. If you don't want to attach the entire score, you can cut out some of your bars and attach just a page or two. Or remove some of your instruments and attach just one or two staves.

I hesitate to suggest this very basic feature, but it is possible that you are not aware of the >Layout>Format functions. You can move every bar onto one page if you care to do that. Or you can place as many bars into any system as you want to.

In the situation you describe, you may want to double click on the line containing the 15 bars and then add several more bars from the next system on the next page. Then >Layout>Format>Make Into System.

Also, don't forget you can force a system break by clicking on a barline and pressing the enter key. Click again to remove that forced break. There may be a break after the 15-bar rest that you can remove to allow Sibelius to adjust the number of bars in that system.

Sibelius will attempt to place a page break so a long rest is the last bar on the page. That helps with page turns. You can override it if you want to as I described above.

I don't believe your system with the 15-bar multirest takes up half the system and crams another six bars to the left. If that is the situation, you do need to post an example so we can see it. More likely, Sibelius has created a system with one or two bars of notes and the long rest. You can fix that by adding bars from the previous system or adding bars from the succeeding system.

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Re: Sib. 6.1: Multi-bar rests
Posted by Janet Bordeaux - 31 Dec 06:46PM
Hi Terry, I'll have to explore the options you've presented here. It's possible I gave the wrong picture - I suspect my word definitions are incorrect. There are too few measures on the line I was trying to fix.

It was a single line which consisted of 3 measures, the first measure with a half note that was tied from the line above, a second measure which showed as a 15 bar rest, filling 1/2 of the width of the line, then a third measure with a two bar rest, the same size as the first measure.Then Sibelius put what I only know to term as a "hard return" at the end of this line, and won't allow me to delete it.

Also, this is a problem that comes up in the PART, not the score. So when I print the part, I want to keep it to two pages, so there will not be any page turns. This long multi-rest pushed the music to three pages, or I have to print it smaller which taxes my "old" eyes.

I don't know if this will make sense, and I don't see anyway to show it to you without attaching the entire page of music. If I delete anything, then it re-formats the line and it looks different. This is an original composition and I don't want to put it out into cyberspace until it is copyrighted.

I really do appreciate all your efforts to help, but I was able to fix the problem this time by following Daniel's suggestion to change the setting for bar rests.

I will definitely save your info to apply as needed in future compositions.

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Re: Sib. 6.1: Multi-bar rests
Posted by Terry Carter, Rural Michigan USA - 31 Dec 08:06PM (edited 31 Dec 08:10PM)
I'm glad you solved your problem. I have two follow-up comments.

First, you may be a great composer. I'll give you that. However, I cannot remember any other composer on this chatpage ever finding that someone has stolen his piece. Also, it is a generally understood philosophy here that no one will criticize anyone's music unless specifically asked to do so.

Second, I was trying to explain in my post above about the hard return. That shows up as as a light blue arrow at the top of the system that starts to the right, then turns down, then turns back to the left. You create it by selecting a barline and pressing the enter key. That operation is a toggle, so you do the same thing again to remove it. In the Sibelius world it's called a system break.

If you see a small.light blue page there with a bent corner, it is not only a system break, but also a page break. A new page will start there. Hold the control key down when you press the enter key to get a page break.

Removing that system break (hard return) does not necessarily bring those bars together into one line. They may be separated just because Sibelius has analyzed the situation and found them to require two lines. However, if you do have a system break, you can remove it by selecting the barline and pressing the enter key.

I do understand that your multirest problem occurs in the part. That's where multirests are used. They are practically never used in scores unless there is a need for every player to stop playing for a certain amount of time such as behind the dialogue of a play.

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Re: Sib. 6.1: Multi-bar rests
Posted by Rob Tuley - 31 Dec 08:22PM
If you are bothered about IP issues, make a copy of your score, then delete all the staves except the flute, so you have a "score", plus the one dynamic part with the problem but nothing else.

You could also use the "make pitches constant" plugin to keep the rhythm (and therefore the note spacing) but hide all the pitches.

Possibly, you have some other auto-formatting options switched on which are making Sibelius start new systems where you don't want it to (e.g. at tempo changes, rehearsal marks, etc) and therefore you are getting a system than is mostly a multirest.

Without looking at the score in Sibelius (not just seeing a picture of it or reading a description in words) people are pretty much guessing what the problem might be.

If Daniel's guess fixed it this time, that's great - but there may be a better fix that also works next time...

--
Rob

Sib 4.1, Win98SE, Athlon 3100, 512Mb, Audigy

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Re: Sib. 6.1: Multi-bar rests
Posted by Janet Bordeaux - 01 Jan 02:11AM
No, I don't consider myself a "great" composer - just very new, and insecure. This is my first experience with this forum, and I wasn't aware of its history in this respect. I am aware however, that theft of material does occur, which is why we have copyright laws. If it never happens here, then that is a statement of the integrity of those using this forum. But you can't expect a "newbie" like me to know that.

I wasn't aware of the toggle aspect of the hard return. I did try that and it worked. It did make the line look much better. So now I have two ways to make my scores look the way I want them to! Very nice.

Prior to this experience when I wanted to delete a hard return, I simply clicked on it, it turned blue and then I hit delete. That always worked so I hadn't explored any other way.

As for where multirests occur, well I think I've already stated I'm not terribly experienced. I don't know all the technical terms and how to use them, so maybe I add extra info not needed by the rest of you experts.

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Re: Sib. 6.1: Multi-bar rests
Posted by Jim Druckenmiller - 31 Dec 08:28PM (edited 01 Jan 02:37AM)
>
This is an original composition and I don't want to put it out into cyberspace until it is copyrighted.
>


One option you have in being able to post your score online (or better yet a graphic of it), and still have the comfort of protecting your material is by running a >Plug-in >Transformation over a selected group of notes (or all of them).

Something along the lines of say 'Randomize Pitches', or 'Shuffle Pitches' will obscure things pretty good. Certainly enough to make it unrecognizable form the original. And thus providing you some peace of mind - and quite possibly some extra time from not having to figure out how to describe in words what can easily be shown with a cropped down graphic image that illustrates your question/s.


That was of course offered up under the category of FWIW (For What It's Worth) advice, a specialty of mine.

Best Wishes,

Jim











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Re: Sib. 6.1: Multi-bar rests
Posted by Janet Bordeaux - 01 Jan 02:13AM
Thanks Jim, I'll keep this in reference for future questions. For now, the score I'm working on is fixed.

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Messages in this thread

Sib. 6.1: Multi-bar rests - Janet Bordeaux, 29 Dec 12:16AM
     Re: Sib. 6.1: Multi-bar rests - Terry Carter, Rural Michigan USA, 29 Dec 01:08AM
         Re: Sib. 6.1: Multi-bar rests - Daniel Spreadbury, 29 Dec 11:19AM
             Re: Sib. 6.1: Multi-bar rests - Janet Bordeaux, 31 Dec 08:27AM
                 Re: Sib. 6.1: Multi-bar rests - Terry Carter, Rural Michigan USA, 31 Dec 10:01AM
                     Re: Sib. 6.1: Multi-bar rests - Janet Bordeaux, 31 Dec 06:46PM
                         Re: Sib. 6.1: Multi-bar rests - Terry Carter, Rural Michigan USA, 31 Dec 08:06PM
                             Re: Sib. 6.1: Multi-bar rests - Rob Tuley, 31 Dec 08:22PM
                             Re: Sib. 6.1: Multi-bar rests - Janet Bordeaux, 01 Jan 02:11AM
                         Re: Sib. 6.1: Multi-bar rests - Jim Druckenmiller, 31 Dec 08:28PM
                             Re: Sib. 6.1: Multi-bar rests - Janet Bordeaux, 01 Jan 02:13AM