Sibelius - the leading music composition and notation software

Crash cymbal with tremolo marking is common. As in the attached.

--
Macbook Pro 2.4ghz, 4gb RAM, OS 10.5.7, Sibelius 5.2.5, Kontakt, Vienna Strings, Random Soundfonts, too many guitars

Attachment

Picture 1.png (30K)

Re: Sib. 5.x: Notation of Cymbal Roll
Posted by Annabelle S. Morison - 01 Aug 06:02AM

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> Crash cymbal with tremolo marking is common. As in the attached.
>
> --
> Macbook Pro 2.4ghz, 4gb RAM, OS 10.5.7, Sibelius 5.2.5, Kontakt, Vienna Strings, Random Soundfonts, too many guitars
Is there a way you could attach this as a .sib file? Since I'm not sure if Sibelius reads .png files. Aren't those pictures?

Re: Sib. 5.x: Notation of Cymbal Roll
Posted by jay vilnai - 01 Aug 06:21AM

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sure

--
Macbook Pro 2.4ghz, 4gb RAM, OS 10.5.7, Sibelius 5.2.5, Kontakt, Vienna Strings, Random Soundfonts, too many guitars

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cymbal roll.sib (26K)

Re: Sib. 5.x: Notation of Cymbal Roll
Posted by Laurence Payne - 01 Aug 11:04AM

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On Sat, 01 Aug 2009 04:02:18, "Annabelle S Morison"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>How would I accurately notate a cymbal roll? Is it like notating a regular crash
>cymbal or ride cymbal? I'm confused!

Write a regular cymbal note and use a tremolo marking from keypad 3.
Classical scores sometimes use a trill (from the Lines menu).

Is accurate playback important to you? In real life cymbal rolls (and
drum rolls) are rarely a series of machine-gun-like hits. There are
sample sets with realistic roll samples using various techniques. I'm
not sure how closely these integrate with Sibelius - i.e. whether a
roll notation automatically triggers a different sample than a single
strike.

Re: Sib. 5.x: Notation of Cymbal Roll
Posted by Annabelle S. Morison - 01 Aug 06:01PM

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For example, I have Sibelius Sounds Essentials. And I've got a score that incorporates said Cymbal roll. Here it is. This is a song that I've written, to promote vacations. Also, look at the vocal lines in the score, and see if they look right to you. I'm trying to make the vocalists bend into the destination note, rather than going chromatically up to the note.

Attachment

Port Saint Lucie.sib (132K)

Re: Sib. 5.x: Notation of Cymbal Roll
Posted by Peter Roos - 02 Aug 02:18AM

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Hi Annabelle:

The notes you wrote in the score approximate a cymbal roll but as Laurence mentioned, playback is not ideal - it's like a machine gun effect.

Not sure how relevant playback is but you'd really get much better result with dedicated sound patch, eg one of the cymbal rolls in EWSO. If you have that and you'd write a regular note with the tremelo marking, and you wouldd use Jon Loving's soundsets, you would even get correct playback (in theory at least - I'm having some playback trouble that Jon is helping me with).

I don't know whether Sibelius Sounds or Sibelius Essentials has a dedicated cymbal roll, and how to trigger that.

--
Peter Roos
www.summeroflovemusic.com

Re: Sib. 5.x: Notation of Cymbal Roll
Posted by Ian Cugley - 02 Aug 10:51AM

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>I don't know whether Sibelius Sounds or Sibelius Essentials has a dedicated cymbal roll, and how to trigger that.

Both include a variety of sampled cymbal rolls, which you can use if you can find or make a drum map which associates the sound with a particular pitch and notehead. Drum maps are not necessarily for the timorous, but with a bit of patience you can make them work. There's an excellent tutorial on this:

http://www.sibeliusblog.com/tutorials/video-tutorial-unpitched-percussion-sibelius-5/

Re: Sib. 5.x: Notation of Cymbal Roll
Posted by Laurence Payne - 02 Aug 11:32AM

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Your notation gives a fair playback of a cymbal roll. But if the parts are ever going to be printed out and played (and why else would you have chosen Sibelius as your tool?) the player would be happier with something like the attached.

What are the trill lines over your vocal parts supposed to indicate?

Attachment

Capture.PNG.png (16K)

Re: Sib. 5.x: Notation of Cymbal Roll
Posted by Laurence Payne - 02 Aug 11:42AM

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Those of you who use Windows Vista - had you discovered the Snipping
Tool? I only just have. It's sitting in your Start menu under
Programs/Accessories waiting to snip your chosen rectangle or polygon
directly to a PNG, GIF, JPG or HTML file. Nice.

I'm told it's in all versions of Vista except Home Basic. So hard
luck, cheapskates :-) Presumably it'll be in Windows 7 as well.

Re: Sib. 5.x: Notation of Cymbal Roll
Posted by Annabelle S. Morison - 02 Aug 03:35PM

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> Your notation gives a fair playback of a cymbal roll. But if the parts are ever going to be printed out and played (and why else would you have chosen Sibelius as your tool?) the player would be happier with something like the attached.
>
> What are the trill lines over your vocal parts supposed to indicate? Those are actually supposed to be Glissando Lines. By the way, what exactly would I do with the vocal parts, as far as bending into notes?

Re: Sib. 5.x: Notation of Cymbal Roll
Posted by Laurence Payne - 02 Aug 03:49PM

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On Sun, 02 Aug 2009 15:35:06, "Annabelle S Morison"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>> Your notation gives a fair playback of a cymbal roll. But if the parts are ever
>going to be printed out and played (and why else would you have chosen Sibelius
>as your tool?) the player would be happier with something like the attached.
>>
>> What are the trill lines over your vocal parts supposed to indicate? Those are
>actually supposed to be Glissando Lines. By the way, what exactly would I do with
>the vocal parts, as far as bending into notes?

There's a glissando line in the Lines menu which you could put between
the notes. This, combined with a little explanation and demonstration
to the live performers should do the trick.

Or maybe you're aiming to produce a synthesized performance? If you
want precise control over pitch bending of synthesized sounds you'll
go mad trying to integrate it with readable notation in Sibelius. Have
you got a sequencer program as well?

Re: Sib. 5.x: Notation of Cymbal Roll
Posted by Annabelle S. Morison - 02 Aug 04:43PM

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> On Sun, 02 Aug 2009 15:35:06, "Annabelle S Morison"
> wrote:
>
> >> Your notation gives a fair playback of a cymbal roll. But if the parts are ever
> >going to be printed out and played (and why else would you have chosen Sibelius
> >as your tool?) the player would be happier with something like the attached.
> >>
> >> What are the trill lines over your vocal parts supposed to indicate? Those are
> >actually supposed to be Glissando Lines. By the way, what exactly would I do with
> >the vocal parts, as far as bending into notes?
>
> There's a glissando line in the Lines menu which you could put between
> the notes. This, combined with a little explanation and demonstration
> to the live performers should do the trick.
>
> Or maybe you're aiming to produce a synthesized performance? If you
> want precise control over pitch bending of synthesized sounds you'll
> go mad trying to integrate it with readable notation in Sibelius. Have
> you got a sequencer program as well?
Yes, indeed I do. I happen to have Sonar 8 Producer Edition.

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Messages in this thread

Sib. 5.x: Notation of Cymbal Roll - Annabelle S. Morison, 01 Aug 04:02AM

Re: Sib. 5.x: Notation of Cymbal Roll - jay vilnai, 01 Aug 05:47AM

Re: Sib. 5.x: Notation of Cymbal Roll - Annabelle S. Morison, 01 Aug 06:02AM

Re: Sib. 5.x: Notation of Cymbal Roll - jay vilnai, 01 Aug 06:21AM

Re: Sib. 5.x: Notation of Cymbal Roll - Laurence Payne, 01 Aug 11:04AM

Re: Sib. 5.x: Notation of Cymbal Roll - Annabelle S. Morison, 01 Aug 06:01PM

Re: Sib. 5.x: Notation of Cymbal Roll - Peter Roos, 02 Aug 02:18AM

Re: Sib. 5.x: Notation of Cymbal Roll - Ian Cugley, 02 Aug 10:51AM

Re: Sib. 5.x: Notation of Cymbal Roll - Laurence Payne, 02 Aug 11:32AM

Re: Sib. 5.x: Notation of Cymbal Roll - Laurence Payne, 02 Aug 11:42AM

Re: Sib. 5.x: Notation of Cymbal Roll - Annabelle S. Morison, 02 Aug 03:35PM

Re: Sib. 5.x: Notation of Cymbal Roll - Laurence Payne, 02 Aug 03:49PM

Re: Sib. 5.x: Notation of Cymbal Roll - Annabelle S. Morison, 02 Aug 04:43PM