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'Piano fingering'

Messages in this thread

Piano fingering - James Gilbert, 10 Jul 03:56AM

Re: Piano fingering - Richard Vitale, 10 Jul 06:25AM

Re: Piano fingering - Daniel Spreadbury, 10 Jul 09:10AM

Re: Piano fingering - James Gilbert, 10 Jul 08:28PM

Re: Piano fingering - James Gilbert, 10 Jul 07:57PM

Re: Piano fingering - Richard Vitale, 11 Jul 04:35AM

Re: Piano fingering - James Gilbert, 11 Jul 03:07PM

Piano fingering
Posted by James Gilbert - 10 Jul 03:56AM

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Is it considered modern practice to place all piano fingering text above (for RH) or below (for LH) the staff in exactly the same vertical position (relative to the staff or stems)? Most piano lesson books (Alfred, Bastien, etc) are printed this way and it seems to be the default behavior for Sibelius. However, in some old music I have, the fingerings are printed as close to the notehead as practical. In fact, I just noticed that a couple of G.C. Schirmer piano editions I looked at do the same thing.

The graphic shows the old style. It appears as though the vertical placement of the text is (almost) always xx spaces from either the stem or notehead, even if that means the text is printed in the staff. As a pianist & piano teacher I prefer this way of showing fingering.

I can't seem to find any way to replicate this way of doing fingering. Although I can't think of any use other than fingering, it would be nice to have the choice. Is there a way to do this? The adjust text position plugin doesn't do it.

James

Attachment

OldFingering2.png (58K)

Re: Piano fingering
Posted by Richard Vitale - 10 Jul 06:25AM (edited 11 Jul 03:49AM)

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Hi James,

Click on a note, and go to:
Create>Text>Other Staff Text>Fingering
click in fingering on keyboard and hit "Space Bar" to go to next note.
(You might make a shortcut key for this!)

Go to:
House Style>Edit Text Style>Fingering
and push Edit
and increase point size to "10" if you'd like in Score and Parts

For bottom stave go to:
Edit>Filter>Staff Text
and move text with:
⌘ Command on Mac (Ctrl on Windows) + “arrow keys“
or just arrow keys

Every once in a while, you may want to click on a fingering and right click to turn off magnetic layout.

--
Richie Vitale-Sib 6.0 User
iMac G5/OS 10.4.11
1.8 GHz/768 MB RAM
http://www.myspace.com/richievitale

Attachments

Fingerings.sib (36K),

Screenshot_4.png (46K)

Re: Piano fingering
Posted by Daniel Spreadbury - 10 Jul 09:10AM

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You can try Plug-ins > Text > Reposition Text, which was initially designed to handle fingering for keyboard music.

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Re: Piano fingering
Posted by James Gilbert - 10 Jul 08:28PM

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> You can try Plug-ins > Text > Reposition Text, which was initially designed to handle fingering for keyboard music.

As I said in my original message, the plug-in does not accomplish the task. Maybe I'm missing the right settings but all I can do is get the RH fingerings to move down as far as the top line of the staff.

I hate to bring up Finale, but what I'm after is the ability in Finale to position articulations a specific amount above or below a note *automatically*. What I was hoping is that after I entered the finger numbers in Sibelius it would automatically position the numbers close to the notehead (when the stems are down) and close to the stems (when the stems are up) as previously shown. Unless I'm missing some vital setting either in the fingerings text definition or in the position fingering plug-in, I'm beginning to think this isn't possible. At least I can manually move them.

James

Re: Piano fingering
Posted by James Gilbert - 10 Jul 07:57PM

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> Click on a note, and go to:
> Create>Text>Other Staff Text>Fingering
> click in fingering on keyboard and hit "Return" to go to next note.

I think you mean "space" - hitting "return" moves the cursor down like in a text editor (nice for chords).

> For bottom stave go to:
> Edit>Filter>Staff Text
> and move text with:
> ⌥ Option on Mac (Alt on Windows) + “arrow keys“
> or just arrow keys

The combination of ALT-arrows does nothing. I think the option key must map to the CTRL key?

I probably didn't make myself clear enough in my original message. I realize I can manually move each number to the desired location. What I'd really like is the program to automatically place the fingering xx spaces from the notehead (if stems down in RH part) or xx spaces from the stem (if stems up in RH part). I don't see anyway to do that.

Re: Piano fingering
Posted by Richard Vitale - 11 Jul 04:35AM (edited 11 Jul 05:28AM)

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No, James,

You were clear and I was answering hurriedly (and corrected the two things you mentioned in your post). I apologize for the wrong directions.
:-)
--------
(There also may be a way to position the fingerings with a mouse click, but someone else can chime in on that.)

EDIT:
Because "Vertical Position Relative to Staff" may not get you close enough to the note, after you've entered all your notes:

Try:
Preferences>Mouse
and tick the Radio Button called:
"Click the mouse to position it"
Then make a short cut key for "Fingerings"
(in Preferences>Menus and Shortcuts>Text Styles>Fingering>
Push "Add" > Enter "Short Cut Key(s) > Push "OK")
(see screenshot called "Shortcut")
Push it (your "Shortcut Key")
Click close to the note (you'll see a flashing cursor)
Input your "Fingering"
Click anywhere on the score or push Escape,
Repeat Process

(When you're done, you might reset the Mouse Preference.)
---------

It takes a bit of time to explain so I mistakenly rushed:

If you doing a lot of this (pages of this kind of work, that is), I would go to:
House Style>Edit Text Styles>Fingerings
Push "New" and then "Yes"
Call it "Fingerings ("Bottom Stave" or "Below Note")" or some such thing
Push "OK" and "Close"

Now, go to House Style>Default Positions
(see screenshot)
You'll see Fingerings
and below that
"Fingerings (Bottom Stave)"
You can try "-7" in the "Vertical Position Relative to Staff" space in the "Fingerings (Bottom Stave)" and may want to offset the Horizontal Position with a + amount

This'll get you close but you'll have to experiment.

Re: what you said:
"What I'd really like is the program to automatically place the fingering xx spaces from the notehead (if stems down in RH part) or xx spaces from the stem (if stems up in RH part)"

In your screenshot all stems point downwards, but regardless of stem pointing "Vertical Position Relative to Staff" will get you close (above or below the "note").
-----
So, what I explained in my first post requires little set-up.
This will take a little while.
-----
But once you do as described in this post, it will work on all your scores when you use this House Style.

I do much strange formatting and once I've figured it out, I've found Sibelius in almost every instance to be superior to Finale.

(Emphasis on almost.)

Welcome aboard,

Richie (ex-Finale user)
--
Richie Vitale-Sib 6.0 User
iMac G5/OS 10.4.11
1.8 GHz/768 MB RAM
http://www.myspace.com/richievitale

Attachments

Default Positions.png (96K),

Shortcut.png (100K)

Re: Piano fingering
Posted by James Gilbert - 11 Jul 03:07PM

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Thanks for the tips and suggestions. They're very helpful. I may not be able to do what I was hoping I could in as quick a manner, but I can get it done in an acceptable manner and time.

Thanks

James

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Messages in this thread

Piano fingering - James Gilbert, 10 Jul 03:56AM

Re: Piano fingering - Richard Vitale, 10 Jul 06:25AM

Re: Piano fingering - Daniel Spreadbury, 10 Jul 09:10AM

Re: Piano fingering - James Gilbert, 10 Jul 08:28PM

Re: Piano fingering - James Gilbert, 10 Jul 07:57PM

Re: Piano fingering - Richard Vitale, 11 Jul 04:35AM

Re: Piano fingering - James Gilbert, 11 Jul 03:07PM