'Sib. 5.1: fermata, general pause'

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Sib. 5.1: fermata, general pause - infoseeker, 20 Mar 11:53PM
     Re: Sib. 5.1: fermata, general pause - Terry Carter, Rural Michigan USA, 21 Mar 12:30AM
         Re: Sib. 5.1: fermata, general pause - infoseeker, 21 Mar 01:05AM
             Re: Sib. 5.1: fermata, general pause - Terry Carter, Rural Michigan USA, 21 Mar 01:13AM
                 Re: Sib. 5.1: fermata, general pause - infoseeker, 21 Mar 02:00AM
                     Re: Sib. 5.1: fermata, general pause - Terry Carter, Rural Michigan USA, 21 Mar 02:40AM
                     Re: Sib. 5.1: fermata, general pause - John Mason, 21 Mar 02:57AM
                         Re: Sib. 5.1: fermata, general pause - Rachel Lockwood, 21 Mar 12:48PM
                             Re: Sib. 5.1: fermata, general pause - Peter Roos, 21 Mar 03:09PM
                                 Re: Sib. 5.1: fermata, general pause - infoseeker, 21 Mar 09:37PM
                                     Re: Sib. 5.1: fermata, general pause - infoseeker, 22 Mar 12:50AM
                             Re: Sib. 5.1: fermata, general pause - Martin P. Kellogg, 22 Mar 06:16AM
                                 Re: Sib. 5.1: fermata, general pause - Jeremy Hughes, 22 Mar 08:14AM
                                     Re: Sib. 5.1: fermata, general pause - Martin P. Kellogg, 22 Mar 07:12PM

Sib. 5.1: fermata, general pause
Posted by infoseeker - 20 Mar 11:53PM
For the record, I'm using Windows XP Professional, SP 2 with Intel Pentium 4C PU 2.53 GHz, Memory 1GB.

I have read all the threads dealing with fermatas and the various lengths which they can have. None of them seem to address what I'm after.

In several scores, I have a spot where a fermata is assigned to all the notes at the end of a measure which works just fine. However, I expect to have a complete moment of silence before the next measure begins. That doesn't occur. The fermata is over and immediately the next measure begins.

So, I thought I would try a general pause, which I learned to be shown as // over a measure line. But nothing I can find, even the various possibilities in the Symbols will cause a complete moment of silence.

In the reference the index shows that page 128 treats general and grand pauses. I don't think so. That page treats another topic entirely and a search through the reference turns up no page that deals with any kind of pause.

Sooooo.... my question: How do I get the score in playback to hold the fermata, have a moment of silence and then start with the next measure? So far I have had to put the fermata over a half note, change the note to a dotted half note and that almost works for what I want.

Any suggestions?

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Re: Sib. 5.1: fermata, general pause
Posted by Terry Carter, Rural Michigan USA - 21 Mar 12:30AM (edited 21 Mar 12:53AM)
Put in an extra beat and hide the rest.

In a 4/4 piece, insert a 5/4 bar. Put the fermata over the 4th beat or earlier. Set any metronome mark you like for the hidden rest and hide it. Then set a new metronome mark at the beginning of the next bar. Hide it if you want to.

I practically never use the functioning fermata. I use the symbol fermata and create a MM for that held note. And hide the MM. That gives me control over the length of time the fermata is held.

- Terry

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Re: Sib. 5.1: fermata, general pause
Posted by infoseeker - 21 Mar 01:05AM
Thanks for the suggestion. I would have never thought of doing that.

So, if this measure in 5/4 is inserted and the rest is hidden at the end of that measure, what will print out when the score and individual parts are printed out?

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Re: Sib. 5.1: fermata, general pause
Posted by Terry Carter, Rural Michigan USA - 21 Mar 01:13AM (edited 21 Mar 01:15AM)
Try it. You'll like it.

Hidden objects don't print. In fact you can turn them off so they don't display or on so they display in gray. Either way they don't print.

Don't forget you can drag the barline following the fermata to space the items and the railroad tracks (GP) the way you want.

- Terry

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Re: Sib. 5.1: fermata, general pause
Posted by infoseeker - 21 Mar 02:00AM

"Don't forget you can drag the barline following the fermata to space the items and the railroad tracks (GP) the way you want."

Uh, you want to give me a little more explanation about railroad tracks (GP). I am guessing that it would be possible to grab the bar line after the rest after the fermata and pull it back so that the hidden rest in the 5/4 bar doesn't show.

From your suggestions, I am assuming that it would be possible to keep the 4/4 measure and have the last note with a fermata, then have next measure a 1/4 measure with a complete rest, then back to 4/4 in the next measure. But that seems a bit more cumbersome than the suggestion you gave me, especially in printing out the complete score and the individual parts.

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Re: Sib. 5.1: fermata, general pause
Posted by Terry Carter, Rural Michigan USA - 21 Mar 02:40AM (edited 21 Mar 02:41AM)
The first system shows how I have created a 5/4 bar. The second system shows that I have deleted the 5/4 time signature and the 4/4 time signature and indicated that the bars should not be retimed. Then I added a ritardando, five symbol fermatas, five GP indicators, and three metronome marks. I have also dragged the hidden 5th-beat rests slightly to the left and the following barline considerably to the left. Just enough space after the 4th beat before the barline to place the GP lines conveniently.

After I insert one fermata and one set of GP lines from the symbols menu, I copy each four times and drag them to the proper positions on the next lines. Just be sure you attach them to the proper staves.

Click off the View-Hidden-Objects to see what the 2nd system will look like when you print it.

I would not add a 1-beat bar. I have used 1-beat bars, but not for a grand pause.

- Terry
Attachment Grand Pause example 3-20-08.sib (50K)

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Re: Sib. 5.1: fermata, general pause
Posted by John Mason - 21 Mar 02:57AM
Here's an alternative.

Put the fermata over the note you want to hold, then assign a metronome mark at that location that gives you roughly the amount of pause you desire. Then enter a second metronome mark at the point at which you want to resume your original tempo.

Now decrease the Live Duration of the held note (and any other held notes) in the Properties Window. On playback Sibelius will hold those notes, simulating a fermata, and when the Live Duration expires, Sibelius will continue to hold for a bit of silence equivalent to the amount of duration you lopped off.

Tinker with the Live Duration length, the metronome mark, and perhaps the attachment point of the metronome mark, and you should be able to obtain the effect you want.

--
John Mason
Mac OS 10.4.11, Mac Pro, 3 GHz, 5 GB, Sib 5.1, Sib Sound Essentials

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Re: Sib. 5.1: fermata, general pause
Posted by Rachel Lockwood - 21 Mar 12:48PM
OR make the next bar a 'new section', but without being a new system or anything, then it will automatically put in a break. You can choose how long you want it to be (in multiples of crotchets, I thnk) somewhere in the playback preferences.

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Re: Sib. 5.1: fermata, general pause
Posted by Peter Roos - 21 Mar 03:09PM
Here is another example (which I used in a 4/4 score): instead of using a full note, use half a dotted half note, place a fermata over itm and tie it to a dotted eigth note. What you effectively get is one sixteenth rest at the end of the bar. See example attached. This has the advantage that you can actually see what's going on the score.
Attachments Rest Example.sib (34K), Rest Example.sib (34K)

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Re: Sib. 5.1: fermata, general pause
Posted by infoseeker - 21 Mar 09:37PM
What a plethora of helpful hints. Many thanks, folks. I'll try all the suggestions and see which one or ones work for me.

Thanks again.

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Re: Sib. 5.1: fermata, general pause
Posted by infoseeker - 22 Mar 12:50AM
Thanks for all the suggestions. I have had a chance to try all of them, and they all work equally well (there are many paths to the top of Mt. Fuji....), so I have several methods to chose from when I run into this "problem" in the future.

One curious thing: none of the examples made any sound when I opened them and played them. However, the "green line" (whatever that is called) followed right along as if things were sounding out and stopped at the appropriate places.

Thanks again.

B L

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Re: Sib. 5.1: fermata, general pause
Posted by Martin P. Kellogg - 22 Mar 06:16AM
> make the next bar a 'new section'

Unfortunately, you only get a pause if you put in a final barline. There have been requests to make this work at a section end also, but it doesn't at present.

--
Martin

Sibelius 5.1; dual 3.2 GHz Pentium 4's, 2 GB RAM, WinXP Pro, two monitors, Echo Indigo io (PC card audio interface)

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Re: Sib. 5.1: fermata, general pause
Posted by Jeremy Hughes - 22 Mar 08:14AM
Martin P. Kellogg wrote:
>Unfortunately, you only get a pause if you put in a final barline. There have been requests to make this work at a section end also, but it doesn't at present.

If you insert a final barline in the middle of the bar (i.e. not at an existing barline) which you have selected as a section end, you can then hide it, and the playback will pause at the *end* of that bar, for the number of beats specified in Play>Performance.

Jeremy
--
music editor/setter
iMac Intel 2GHz 2GB/OS 10.4.11/Sibelius 4.1.5

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Re: Sib. 5.1: fermata, general pause
Posted by Martin P. Kellogg - 22 Mar 07:12PM
> If you insert a final barline in the middle of the bar (i.e. not at an existing barline) which you have selected as a section end, you can then hide it, and the playback will pause at the *end* of that bar, for the number of beats specified in Play>Performance.

Devilishly clever! I'll have to try this.

--
Martin

Sibelius 5.1; dual 3.2 GHz Pentium 4's, 2 GB RAM, WinXP Pro, two monitors, Echo Indigo io (PC card audio interface)

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Messages in this thread

Sib. 5.1: fermata, general pause - infoseeker, 20 Mar 11:53PM
     Re: Sib. 5.1: fermata, general pause - Terry Carter, Rural Michigan USA, 21 Mar 12:30AM
         Re: Sib. 5.1: fermata, general pause - infoseeker, 21 Mar 01:05AM
             Re: Sib. 5.1: fermata, general pause - Terry Carter, Rural Michigan USA, 21 Mar 01:13AM
                 Re: Sib. 5.1: fermata, general pause - infoseeker, 21 Mar 02:00AM
                     Re: Sib. 5.1: fermata, general pause - Terry Carter, Rural Michigan USA, 21 Mar 02:40AM
                     Re: Sib. 5.1: fermata, general pause - John Mason, 21 Mar 02:57AM
                         Re: Sib. 5.1: fermata, general pause - Rachel Lockwood, 21 Mar 12:48PM
                             Re: Sib. 5.1: fermata, general pause - Peter Roos, 21 Mar 03:09PM
                                 Re: Sib. 5.1: fermata, general pause - infoseeker, 21 Mar 09:37PM
                                     Re: Sib. 5.1: fermata, general pause - infoseeker, 22 Mar 12:50AM
                             Re: Sib. 5.1: fermata, general pause - Martin P. Kellogg, 22 Mar 06:16AM
                                 Re: Sib. 5.1: fermata, general pause - Jeremy Hughes, 22 Mar 08:14AM
                                     Re: Sib. 5.1: fermata, general pause - Martin P. Kellogg, 22 Mar 07:12PM