Messages in this thread

Resizing Bars (chaotic results) - monsterjazzlicks, 09 May 11:08PM
     Re: Resizing Bars (chaotic results) - monsterjazzlicks, 09 May 11:09PM
         Re: Resizing Bars (chaotic results) - Adrian Drover, 10 May 06:50AM
             Re: Resizing Bars (chaotic results) - Mike Lyons, 10 May 09:54AM
                 Re: Resizing Bars (chaotic results) - Laurence Payne, 10 May 12:42PM
                     Re: Resizing Bars (chaotic results) - Justin at Sibelius, 10 May 04:37PM
                         Re: Resizing Bars (chaotic results) - Justin at Sibelius, 10 May 04:37PM
                             Re: Resizing Bars (chaotic results) - monsterjazzlicks, 10 May 07:41PM
                                 Re: Resizing Bars (chaotic results) - monsterjazzlicks, 10 May 07:43PM
                                     Re: Resizing Bars (chaotic results) - monsterjazzlicks, 10 May 07:47PM
                                         Re: Resizing Bars (chaotic results) - monsterjazzlicks, 10 May 07:50PM
                                             Re: Resizing Bars (chaotic results) - monsterjazzlicks, 10 May 08:28PM
                                                 Re: Resizing Bars (chaotic results) - monsterjazzlicks, 10 May 08:47PM
                                                     Re: Resizing Bars (chaotic results) - monsterjazzlicks, 10 May 08:54PM
                                                         Re: Resizing Bars (chaotic results) - Laurence Payne, 10 May 09:16PM
                                                         Re: Resizing Bars (chaotic results) - monsterjazzlicks, 10 May 09:19PM
                                                             Re: Resizing Bars (chaotic results) - monsterjazzlicks, 10 May 09:29PM
                                                                 Re: Resizing Bars (chaotic results) - monsterjazzlicks, 10 May 09:38PM
                                                                     Re: Resizing Bars (chaotic results) - Adrian Drover, 11 May 07:13AM
                                                                         Re: Resizing Bars (chaotic results) - monsterjazzlicks, 11 May 02:51PM
                                                                             Re: Resizing Bars (chaotic results) - monsterjazzlicks, 11 May 03:07PM
                                                                                 Re: Resizing Bars (chaotic results) - monsterjazzlicks, 11 May 03:13PM
                                                                                     Re: Resizing Bars (chaotic results) - monsterjazzlicks, 11 May 04:22PM
                                                                     Re: Resizing Bars (chaotic results) - Laurence Payne, 11 May 04:27PM
                                                                         Re: Resizing Bars (chaotic results) - monsterjazzlicks, 11 May 07:16PM
                                                                             Re: Resizing Bars (chaotic results) - monsterjazzlicks, 11 May 07:35PM
                                                                                 Re: Resizing Bars (chaotic results) - monsterjazzlicks, 11 May 07:54PM
                                                                                     Re: Resizing Bars (chaotic results) - monsterjazzlicks, 11 May 08:23PM
                                                                                         Re: Resizing Bars (chaotic results) - Adrian Drover, 12 May 06:08AM
                                                                                             Re: Resizing Bars (chaotic results) - monsterjazzlicks, 12 May 05:54PM
                                                                                             Re: Resizing Bars (chaotic results) - Laurence Payne, 12 May 08:20PM
                                                                                                 Re: Resizing Bars (chaotic results) - monsterjazzlicks, 12 May 09:01PM
                                                                                                     Re: Resizing Bars (chaotic results) - Adrian Drover, 13 May 06:55AM
                                                                                                         Re: Resizing Bars (chaotic results) - monsterjazzlicks, 13 May 04:27PM
                                                                                                             Re: Resizing Bars (chaotic results) - Adrian Drover, 13 May 05:34PM

Resizing Bars (chaotic results)
Posted by monsterjazzlicks - 09 May 11:08PM (edited 09 May 11:11PM)
Hi folks,

This has massively been bugging me for some time and is something I should have addressed many moons ago.

I never seem to be able to achieve the desired layout in scenarios where multi-rests and notations share the same system.

(Please see link.)

The two systems circled in red are examples of my attempts at resizing the multi-rests against the bars with notation. Whether I drag the handle, use ALT+SHIFT+ARROW, reset note spacing, or whatever, nothing ever seems to work? My arrangements desperately cry out for a fix!

The system circled in green worked like a dream.

I just can't fathom why it works in some instances and is blatantly stubborn in others?

Many thanks in advance for any kind assistance offered here.

Best,

Paul David Seaman (UK)

Sibelius 8.6 (v. 2018.1 / build 1449 / born 2018-01-22)

Dell Inspiron 3737, Windows 10, 16GB RAM, 1.70gHz, 64-bit, Intel Core i3.

paulseaman1 (at) hotmail (dot) com
Attachment Columbus_COPY.sib (168K)

Back to top | All threads
 
Re: Resizing Bars (chaotic results)
Posted by monsterjazzlicks - 09 May 11:09PM
(...taken from page-1 of lead-alto part.)

https://drive.google.com/file/d/16Ab0c0zFmD607tCnDFMikchqd4V6J1el/view?usp=sharing

Back to top | All threads
 
Re: Resizing Bars (chaotic results)
Posted by Adrian Drover - 10 May 06:50AM
Select the notated measure, hold [shift][alt] adjust with left/right arrows. For bigger increments [ctrl][shift][alt]. Don't pull barlines.

Back to top | All threads
 
Re: Resizing Bars (chaotic results)
Posted by Mike Lyons - 10 May 09:54AM
[Wrist slap] How many times have you been told NOT to drag barlines? [/Wrist slap]
--
Win 11 Pro x64, Sib Ultimate 2022.3 (build 888) 2.6GHz Intel Core i7 9750H, 32GB,16TB (SSD + 7200rpm HDD), Scarlett 2i4, Sib 6.2,7.5, NotePerformer and others.
Si me castigare vis, necesse est me intellexisse.
[email protected]

Back to top | All threads
 
Re: Resizing Bars (chaotic results)
Posted by Laurence Payne - 10 May 12:42PM
Layout problems are often caused by trying to get too much onto each line. In this case, they seem to largely be down to trying to get too little!

Your score has been auto-formatted to within an inch of its life! I suggest you go back to the full score, turn off all Auto Breaks settings, do all the Resets. Same in the parts. Everything now starts to fall quite nicely into place. I believe you like rehearsal letters to come at the beginning of a system, so I've added appropriate line breaks, but not made a fetish out of it! Not sure what you're trying to convey with the occasional use of phrase marks? Gliss lines have been re-made using the Line Between Notes plugin, which gives a more stable result. Some of your scoops have got mis-placed, when replaced with ones from Keypad 5 they seem to behave better! Still some tidying-up to do, and I've only worked on the Alto 1 part. But I think it's ended up quite nicely balanced, and an efficient use of paper. See attached version.
Attachment LP_Columbus_COPY(1).sib (193K)

Back to top | All threads
 
Re: Resizing Bars (chaotic results)
Posted by Justin at Sibelius - 10 May 04:37PM
It's a bit counterintuitive, but if you want to make the multirest bars bigger, you need to drag the *ending* barline to adjust their size. This will push the other bars with notes in them to be narrower.

--
Justin Tokke, Senior Product Designer at Sibelius
[email protected]

Contact the Sibelius support team:
https://www.avid.com/learn-and-support/contact-audio-and-music-support

KB and other resources:
https://www.avid.com/sibelius/learn-and-support

Back to top | All threads
 
Re: Resizing Bars (chaotic results)
Posted by Justin at Sibelius - 10 May 04:37PM
Also just a point, you can drag barlines in this case all you like, it's the preferred way to adjust multirest bars. But I would avoid it in bars with notation as that will only adjust the spacing of the last beat of the bar.

--
Justin Tokke, Senior Product Designer at Sibelius
[email protected]

Contact the Sibelius support team:
https://www.avid.com/learn-and-support/contact-audio-and-music-support

KB and other resources:
https://www.avid.com/sibelius/learn-and-support

Back to top | All threads
 
Re: Resizing Bars (chaotic results)
Posted by monsterjazzlicks - 10 May 07:41PM
> [Wrist slap] How many times have you been told NOT to drag barlines? [/Wrist slap]

Mike - You know, I ALWAYS remember your earlier chastisements. And your presence here does not surprise me.

But six years on, I just can't live with such disproportions. I dare say you (still) disapprove of my 'layout' schemes?

Back to top | All threads
 
Re: Resizing Bars (chaotic results)
Posted by monsterjazzlicks - 10 May 07:43PM
> Layout problems are often caused by trying to get too much onto each line. In this case, they seem to largely be down to trying to get too little!

LP - I don't disagree one iota!

Back to top | All threads
 
Re: Resizing Bars (chaotic results)
Posted by monsterjazzlicks - 10 May 07:47PM (edited 10 May 07:57PM)
> It's a bit counterintuitive, but if you want to make the multirest bars bigger, you need to drag the *ending* barline to adjust their size.

Justin - Oh wow!, as if by magic...massive improvement.
Attachment multi.png (41K)

Back to top | All threads
 
Re: Resizing Bars (chaotic results)
Posted by monsterjazzlicks - 10 May 07:50PM
> But I would avoid it in bars with notation as that will only adjust the spacing of the last beat of the bar.

Justin - OK, point taken. Cheers.

Back to top | All threads
 
Re: Resizing Bars (chaotic results)
Posted by monsterjazzlicks - 10 May 08:28PM
> do all the Resets...

LP - Do you mean: "Reset" or "Reset to", or both? I am checking as I have never done this procedure before? THANKS.

Back to top | All threads
 
Re: Resizing Bars (chaotic results)
Posted by monsterjazzlicks - 10 May 08:47PM
> I believe you like rehearsal letters to come at the beginning of a system, so I've added appropriate line breaks, but not made a fetish out of it!

LP - It was an intentional result of forcing 4 or 8 measures into one system.

Back to top | All threads
 
Re: Resizing Bars (chaotic results)
Posted by monsterjazzlicks - 10 May 08:54PM
> Not sure what you're trying to convey with the occasional use of phrase marks?

LP - Purely to show that a group of notes are musically 'connected'. If you look at letter-D in the lead-alto part you will see a four-bar quote from (Parker/Gillespie) "Hot House." Personally I think it adds cohesiveness when sight-reading.

Back to top | All threads
 
Re: Resizing Bars (chaotic results)
Posted by Laurence Payne - 10 May 09:16PM
> > Not sure what you're trying to convey with the occasional use of phrase marks?
>
> LP - Purely to show that a group of notes are musically 'connected'. If you look at letter-D in the lead-alto part you will see a four-bar quote from (Parker/Gillespie) "Hot House." Personally I think it adds cohesiveness when sight-reading.

My point being - there are many other 'connected' groups that DON'T get a phrase mark?

'All the resets' would include Unlock Format, Reset Note Spacing, Reset Space Above/Below, probably turning off all the Auto Layout stuff...

Back to top | All threads
 
Re: Resizing Bars (chaotic results)
Posted by monsterjazzlicks - 10 May 09:19PM
> Some of your scoops have got mis-placed, when replaced with ones from Keypad 5 they seem to behave better!

LP - Yeah, I just tried and I agree.

Back to top | All threads
 
Re: Resizing Bars (chaotic results)
Posted by monsterjazzlicks - 10 May 09:29PM
> Select the notated measure, hold [shift][alt] adjust with left/right arrows. For bigger increments [ctrl][shift][alt]. Don't pull barlines.

Ade - OK, thanks a lot.

Back to top | All threads
 
Re: Resizing Bars (chaotic results)
Posted by monsterjazzlicks - 10 May 09:38PM (edited 10 May 09:39PM)
> But I think it's ended up quite nicely balanced, and an efficient use of paper.

LP - Do you really have 9 and 10 systems per page? ;-0

Back to top | All threads
 
Re: Resizing Bars (chaotic results)
Posted by Adrian Drover - 11 May 07:13AM
For 7mm stave size, I find 10 single staff systems comfortable. When the last page has only 1 or 2 systems, I divide the total number of systems by the number of pages to get an average, then make page breaks accordingly so that the last page is full. Also, I set staves to justify when page is 50% full when default 65% does not work. And while I'm there, I set H-bar multirests to narrow, and check 'Draw H-bar as a symbol' (good for InkPen font).

Back to top | All threads
 
Re: Resizing Bars (chaotic results)
Posted by monsterjazzlicks - 11 May 02:51PM
> For 7mm stave size, I find 10 single staff systems comfortable.

Ade - Oh I see; well, yes. I use 7.5mm for parts.

Back to top | All threads
 
Re: Resizing Bars (chaotic results)
Posted by monsterjazzlicks - 11 May 03:07PM
> When the last page has only 1 or 2 systems, I divide the total number of systems by the number of pages to get an average, then make page breaks accordingly so that the last page is full.

That's better than an ad-hoc approach!

Back to top | All threads
 
Re: Resizing Bars (chaotic results)
Posted by monsterjazzlicks - 11 May 03:13PM (edited 11 May 03:15PM)
> Also, I set staves to justify when page is 50% full when default 65% does not work.

65% never seemed to work for me. I always had to change it as the bottom-stave would 'snap' at an undesirable point. To be honest I have always found myself setting it a bit higher (circa 75%).

Back to top | All threads
 
Re: Resizing Bars (chaotic results)
Posted by monsterjazzlicks - 11 May 04:22PM
> Not sure what you're trying to convey with the occasional use of phrase marks?

LP - Have killed off all slurs!

Back to top | All threads
 
Re: Resizing Bars (chaotic results)
Posted by Laurence Payne - 11 May 04:27PM
> LP - Do you really have 9 and 10 systems per page? ;-0

Why not? You chose 7.5mm staves in the parts, which seems sensible. That gives sufficient space for 9 or 10 stave pages. There's no virtue in over-spacing.

In my Alto 1 part, page 2 has 10 staves, page 3 has 8. But it's obvious why. Rests at page turns are a Good Thing! Couldn't manage more than a couple of beats at 1/2, but at least they don't have to turn in the middle of a phrase in a soli section!

I'll fill up a last page if it's convenient. Not a high priority though.

Back to top | All threads
 
Re: Resizing Bars (chaotic results)
Posted by monsterjazzlicks - 11 May 07:16PM
> In my Alto 1 part, page 2 has 10 staves, page 3 has 8. But it's obvious why. Rests at page turns are a Good Thing! Couldn't manage more than a couple of beats at 1/2, but at least they don't have to turn in the middle of a phrase in a soli section!

LP - OK, thanks. I notice all of those aspects.

Back to top | All threads
 
Re: Resizing Bars (chaotic results)
Posted by monsterjazzlicks - 11 May 07:35PM (edited 11 May 07:47PM)
> And while I'm there, I set H-bar multirests to narrow, and check 'Draw H-bar as a symbol' (good for InkPen font).

Ade - Found it under "Bar Rests", thanks.

So you prefer these to 'regular'?
Attachment Narrow.png (54K)

Back to top | All threads
 
Re: Resizing Bars (chaotic results)
Posted by monsterjazzlicks - 11 May 07:54PM (edited 11 May 07:57PM)
...I think their strength lies in the fact that they look comfortable when multiple sections share the same system.
Attachment Narrow_2.png (37K)

Back to top | All threads
 
Re: Resizing Bars (chaotic results)
Posted by monsterjazzlicks - 11 May 08:23PM (edited 11 May 09:59PM)
> Some of your scoops have got mis-placed, when replaced with ones from Keypad 5 they seem to behave better!

LP - I just tested - yes, they sit much better. Although still a bit temperamental around accidentals. Cheers.

Back to top | All threads
 
Re: Resizing Bars (chaotic results)
Posted by Adrian Drover - 12 May 06:08AM (edited 12 May 06:11AM)
So you prefer these to 'regular'?
===========================================

No, I prefer these to regular, using symbol for H-bar. Looks more so handwritten.
Attachment InkPen multirests.png (13K)

Back to top | All threads
 
Re: Resizing Bars (chaotic results)
Posted by monsterjazzlicks - 12 May 05:54PM
> No, I prefer these to regular, using symbol for H-bar. Looks more so handwritten.

I think I've got it now, thanks.
Attachment Narrow_3.png (83K)

Back to top | All threads
 
Re: Resizing Bars (chaotic results)
Posted by Laurence Payne - 12 May 08:20PM
> So you prefer these to 'regular'?
> ===========================================
>
> No, I prefer these to regular, using symbol for H-bar. Looks more so handwritten.


But as Paul has now moved away from the 'handwritten' look...

Back to top | All threads
 
Re: Resizing Bars (chaotic results)
Posted by monsterjazzlicks - 12 May 09:01PM
> But as Paul has now moved away from the 'handwritten' look...

LP - At this rate I am moving away from everything! LOL

Whether or not I actually use the 'narrow' H-rest does not really bother me because at the moment I'm grateful for anything new I can learn. And of course stuff always ends up becoming useful in some way or another in the future.

You know, I flipped back to a previous Jazz Pen score earlier and I feel the one I am using for 'Christopher Columbus' is actually a lot clearer. But I will wait and see what kind of feedback I receive at the next big-band rehearsal end of the month; that will be the proof in the pudding.

There is also another style I want to try out which I really do like the look of: Reprise Title Standard.

Back to top | All threads
 
Re: Resizing Bars (chaotic results)
Posted by Adrian Drover - 13 May 06:55AM
Aaaagggghhhh! I hate Reprise's "Rubber Stamp" title text. The only thing I like about Reprise is its clefs which I use in preference to InkPen.

Back to top | All threads
 
Re: Resizing Bars (chaotic results)
Posted by monsterjazzlicks - 13 May 04:27PM
> Aaaagggghhhh! I hate Reprise's "Rubber Stamp" title text. The only thing I like about Reprise is its clefs which I use in preference to InkPen.

You mean you use it only for treble and bass clef notations?; for the purpose of generating a 'handwritten' appearance?

Back to top | All threads
 
Re: Resizing Bars (chaotic results)
Posted by Adrian Drover - 13 May 05:34PM
I like Reprise's clefs better than InkPen's, but I prefer my modified InkPen2 font for everything else.

Back to top | All threads
 

Quick reply

To add a reply to the end of this thread, type it below, then click Reply.

(.sib, .png and .jpg only)

Messages in this thread

Resizing Bars (chaotic results) - monsterjazzlicks, 09 May 11:08PM
     Re: Resizing Bars (chaotic results) - monsterjazzlicks, 09 May 11:09PM
         Re: Resizing Bars (chaotic results) - Adrian Drover, 10 May 06:50AM
             Re: Resizing Bars (chaotic results) - Mike Lyons, 10 May 09:54AM
                 Re: Resizing Bars (chaotic results) - Laurence Payne, 10 May 12:42PM
                     Re: Resizing Bars (chaotic results) - Justin at Sibelius, 10 May 04:37PM
                         Re: Resizing Bars (chaotic results) - Justin at Sibelius, 10 May 04:37PM
                             Re: Resizing Bars (chaotic results) - monsterjazzlicks, 10 May 07:41PM
                                 Re: Resizing Bars (chaotic results) - monsterjazzlicks, 10 May 07:43PM
                                     Re: Resizing Bars (chaotic results) - monsterjazzlicks, 10 May 07:47PM
                                         Re: Resizing Bars (chaotic results) - monsterjazzlicks, 10 May 07:50PM
                                             Re: Resizing Bars (chaotic results) - monsterjazzlicks, 10 May 08:28PM
                                                 Re: Resizing Bars (chaotic results) - monsterjazzlicks, 10 May 08:47PM
                                                     Re: Resizing Bars (chaotic results) - monsterjazzlicks, 10 May 08:54PM
                                                         Re: Resizing Bars (chaotic results) - Laurence Payne, 10 May 09:16PM
                                                         Re: Resizing Bars (chaotic results) - monsterjazzlicks, 10 May 09:19PM
                                                             Re: Resizing Bars (chaotic results) - monsterjazzlicks, 10 May 09:29PM
                                                                 Re: Resizing Bars (chaotic results) - monsterjazzlicks, 10 May 09:38PM
                                                                     Re: Resizing Bars (chaotic results) - Adrian Drover, 11 May 07:13AM
                                                                         Re: Resizing Bars (chaotic results) - monsterjazzlicks, 11 May 02:51PM
                                                                             Re: Resizing Bars (chaotic results) - monsterjazzlicks, 11 May 03:07PM
                                                                                 Re: Resizing Bars (chaotic results) - monsterjazzlicks, 11 May 03:13PM
                                                                                     Re: Resizing Bars (chaotic results) - monsterjazzlicks, 11 May 04:22PM
                                                                     Re: Resizing Bars (chaotic results) - Laurence Payne, 11 May 04:27PM
                                                                         Re: Resizing Bars (chaotic results) - monsterjazzlicks, 11 May 07:16PM
                                                                             Re: Resizing Bars (chaotic results) - monsterjazzlicks, 11 May 07:35PM
                                                                                 Re: Resizing Bars (chaotic results) - monsterjazzlicks, 11 May 07:54PM
                                                                                     Re: Resizing Bars (chaotic results) - monsterjazzlicks, 11 May 08:23PM
                                                                                         Re: Resizing Bars (chaotic results) - Adrian Drover, 12 May 06:08AM
                                                                                             Re: Resizing Bars (chaotic results) - monsterjazzlicks, 12 May 05:54PM
                                                                                             Re: Resizing Bars (chaotic results) - Laurence Payne, 12 May 08:20PM
                                                                                                 Re: Resizing Bars (chaotic results) - monsterjazzlicks, 12 May 09:01PM
                                                                                                     Re: Resizing Bars (chaotic results) - Adrian Drover, 13 May 06:55AM
                                                                                                         Re: Resizing Bars (chaotic results) - monsterjazzlicks, 13 May 04:27PM
                                                                                                             Re: Resizing Bars (chaotic results) - Adrian Drover, 13 May 05:34PM