Sibelius - the leading music composition and notation software

I don't really consider this OT.

And yes, very sad.

--
Bob

Sib 1.2 - 7, Windows 7 Pro SP 1 64 bit, 4 G RAM. Year 2012.
I am an experienced Sibelius user, but am not affiliated with Sibelius Software.
Sib Plugin downloads: www.sibelius.com/download/plugins (see How to Install Plugins; use Vista for Windows 7)
Alphabetical plugin lists: www.bobzawalich.com

Re: OT -
Posted by Derek Williams - 05 Jul 03:37AM

Hide picture

Beyond horrendous. What a corporate slap in the face for such dedication and innovation.

--
Derek Williams

www.derekwilliams.net

Re: OT -
Posted by sakari lindhen - 05 Jul 10:05AM

Hide picture

Shocking.

Re: OT -
Posted by Derek Williams - 05 Jul 06:18PM (edited 05 Jul 06:25PM)

Hide picture

The Facebook address of Avid is https://www.facebook.com/AvidTechnology Click 'Like' on the AvidTechnlogy page to receive updates on the issue.

Until a more co-ordinated campaign can be mounted, users may wish for the time being to post their feelings on Avid's action to this page. I just now posted something. If enough cogent arguments appear there in sufficient numbers, perhaps they may look again at this astonishing decision.

--
Derek Williams

www.derekwilliams.net

Re: OT -
Posted by David Butterworth - 05 Jul 10:32PM

Hide picture

Shocked and upset to hear about this.

I think this paints AVID in a very bad light and my thoughts are with the staff in London whose jobs are at risk/have been lost.

Really bad news.

Re: OT -
Posted by Derek Williams - 06 Jul 01:51AM

Hide picture

I wrote a letter to Gary Greenfield ([email protected]), the CEO apparently responsible for handing down this decision and received a quick response pledging support for Sibelius, however, it's hard to see how sacking the development staff and closing the development office can in any way substantiate this. I think perhaps a few people have written to him about this by now.

It's reductio ad absurdum logic: reduce staff by 10% creates 10% efficiency saving, so they reason that sacking 100% of staff ispo facto creates 100% efficiency. Reminds me of the tongue-in-cheek Infinite Undo description in the Sibelius manual, if you go beyond the maximum level, "you can even Undo back to before you bought Sibelius".

Not understanding the humour, it seems Avid took this literally, and are literally Undoing Sibelius.

--
Derek Williams

www.derekwilliams.net

Re: OT -
Posted by Chris Wimlett - 06 Jul 10:22AM

Hide picture

Appalling news, and seems to confirm the worst fears of those unhappy with the original takeover. Thoughts are very much with the London staff.

--
Sibelius 7.1, 6.2.0, Logic 9, Cubase 6, Mac OS X 10.7.2, iMac 3.06 Ghz, 4Gb RAM, Apogee Duet, Yamaha S90

Re: OT -
Posted by Derek Williams - 06 Jul 10:47AM

Hide picture

It appears there was no choice but to shut down Sibelius because Avid CEO Gary Greenfield's salary increased from $1.2 million in 2009 to $4.8 million in 2011 according to this note in Slipped Disc: http://www.artsjournal.com/slippeddisc/2012/07/sibelius-uk-closure-is-confirmed-killed-by-us-owners-on-the-4th-of-july.html

In order to cover this greedy man's bloated salary and God knows how many other high-flying execs, they sacked the Sibelius development team and closed its UK office.

Truly, the lunatics have taken over the asylum. If Mr Greenfield had exercised restraint so as to live within his means on a more 'modest' pay of $1.2 million (already 20x bigger than a top university professor earns), that alone would have saved the Sibelius UK team's jobs and office.

Come Sibelius friends, let's take off the gloves. They cannot be allowed to get away with such pure and utter greed.

--
Derek Williams

www.derekwilliams.net

Re: OT -
Posted by Derek Bourgeois - 06 Jul 11:36AM

Hide picture

However much one may agree with comment expressed here I just wonder how legally liable one might be in making them on a site owned by the company against whom the comments are directed. I'm no legal expert, but American culture seems to encourage legal action for almost anything.

Take the recent case of the lady who won her action against a company who owned a hot coffee dispenser for not warning her that the hot coffee might burn her if she spilled it on herself!!

Derek

--
Windows 7 Ultimate 64 bit - Intel [email protected] Ghz - 24GB RAM - NVidia Quadro 5000 with 6143 graphics memory - 3 TB hard disks (of which 2 TB SSD) Vienna Symphonic Library Special Edition plus full percussion library. East West QL Symphonic Orchestra and Choirs. Sibelius 7 Sounds. M-Audio Fast Track.

Re: OT -
Posted by Derek Williams - 06 Jul 01:35PM (edited 06 Jul 01:36PM)

Hide picture

Freedom of speech is a protected right in both US and UK. Obvious exceptions include: Libel, Perjury, Fraud, Treason, Incitement to Murder and Incitement to Riot. Another exception would be an employee of Avid bringing the company into disrepute with inflammatory posts in one of its forums.

I don't think any of those have been infringed here, but if they were then it would be the individual making the comment who would be held responsible.

Aside from the above noted exceptions, a public forum gives participants the right to express their opinion, and that perforce includes unflattering or unfavourable opinions.

--
Derek Williams

www.derekwilliams.net

Re: OT -
Posted by David O'Rourke - 06 Jul 02:09PM

Hide picture

Just curious, does Mr Greenfield have a family or dependents? Has he thought of the impact of his actions on people who have families? If so, how does/did he justify the type of action puts families welfare in jeopardy. These were not taken because Sibelius as an entity was failing - they were taken purely out of greed and ego by a man whose moral values are, to me, questionable in the very least!

David

--
David O'Rourke
iMac 2.93 GHz Intel Core i7, 8GB 1333 MHz DDR3
MacBook Pro, 2.2 Ghz Intel Core Duo, 2 GB 10.6.2

Re: OT -
Posted by sakari lindhen - 06 Jul 02:19PM

Hide picture

I dont think CEOs give a damn about the results of their actions on other people...it is the bottom line and their own salary that rules...esp their own salary...4.8 million!

Re: OT -
Posted by Derek Williams - 06 Jul 02:34PM (edited 06 Jul 02:52PM)

Hide picture

CEO's of large corporations don't care about families except insofar as they impact on reputation and profit. So an effective way to attack this is to address the impact of Sibelius UK closure on reputation and profit. If either is damaged, the other is affected.

The end of Sibelius UK can be seen as a loss of face for Britain as much as it is for the employees of Sibelius. It could also have political ramifications, given the current government's express commitment to job creation and foreign investment, so those of a mind to do so could write in this vein to their MP, talk to local media and of course keep the emails coming to Mr Greenfield and his pals. There are other CC's you might want to use:

Gary Greenfield [email protected]
Martin Kloiber [email protected]
Dana Ruzicka [email protected]
Ian Bruce [email protected]

One can also comment in the Avid Facebook site https://www.facebook.com/AvidTechnology by clicking 'Like' and then posting both in the 'Write something' field, and below its restructuring announcement. If Avid's FB becomes flooded with complaints then not only will this raise public awareness about this decision to axe Sibelius, it may mobilise others to complain. There are also many local Fax and Telephone numbers that can be contacted at http://www.avid.com/us/about-avid/office-locations

If Avid HQ become bogged down with complaints about this to the extent that it impacts on the running of their other enterprises, then they may look again at how else they can streamline Sibelius in the UK.

--
Derek Williams

www.derekwilliams.net

Re: OT -
Posted by David - 06 Jul 02:51PM

Hide picture

I wrote to Mr. Greenfield, and received a reply cc'ed to the other people Derek Williams lists. Presumably the standard reply: "Sibelius remains an important part of Avid and will be enhanced and developed by our professional audio team, which continues to set the standard in innovation. For both the professional and student, we want to continue to have a leading product."

But the fact that the reply was cc'ed by Mr. Greenfield to a bunch of other people struck me as interesting. For the moment, at least, the inbox of more than one executive at Avid appears to be receiving our messages. I made a point of writing back to ask how firing the employees and closing the office is consistent with "continuing to have a leading product". I have no illusions about the likelihood that letters from users will change a corporate decision, but it certainly cannot hurt - and who knows.

Re: OT -
Posted by Derek Williams - 06 Jul 02:57PM (edited 06 Jul 03:13PM)

Hide picture

Word for word what my reply said, so maybe they have an anti-spam robot in operation now. Please keep us informed if you get a follow on response. They'll have been expecting some backlash, but the question is how much backlash will they endure, and how much are we prepared and able to give? The Sibelius users' group is very large indeed. If it can be contacted, and everyone sends an email, a letter and a fax, and posts to Facebook, then that will cause real trouble. They can't keep changing their email addresses and Fax nos and blocking Facebook Likes forever.

The new age technology gave us Sibelius, and it has also given us the means to protect it.

--
Derek Williams

www.derekwilliams.net

Re: OT -
Posted by David - 06 Jul 03:06PM (edited 06 Jul 03:09PM)

Hide picture

Despite the form-letter text, I actually think there was a live human being at the other end of my message -- probably Mr. Greenfield himself -- since the reply's salutation reflected the fact that I was a university faculty member from the address section at the bottom of my e-mail. It's not too hard to get a robot to do that, but I doubt this is what happened. So the right people are probably receiving and actually reading user messages - for now, at least.

Re: OT -
Posted by sakari lindhen - 06 Jul 03:15PM

Hide picture

hm, I didnt get an answer to my email....should have included my university...

Re: OT -
Posted by sakari lindhen - 06 Jul 03:16PM

Hide picture

actually, just as I hit 'post' for the above, an answer appeared:

Sakari,

Avid’s audio capabilities, including scoring, is not limited to any one location. Our professional audio team will continue to enhance, develop, and support this product. Thank you for reaching out.

Gary

----

Re: OT -
Posted by Organerito - 06 Jul 04:08PM (edited 06 Jul 04:09PM)

Hide picture

> It appears there was no choice but to shut down Sibelius because Avid CEO Gary Greenfield's salary increased from $1.2 million in 2009 to $4.8 million in 2011 according to this note in Slipped Disc: http://www.artsjournal.com/slippeddisc/2012/07/sibelius-uk-closure-is-confirmed-killed-by-us-owners-on-the-4th-of-july.html
>
> In order to cover this greedy man's bloated salary and God knows how many other high-flying execs, they sacked the Sibelius development team and closed its UK office.
>
> Truly, the lunatics have taken over the asylum. If Mr Greenfield had exercised restraint so as to live within his means on a more 'modest' pay of $1.2 million (already 20x bigger than a top university professor earns), that alone would have saved the Sibelius UK team's jobs and office.
>
> Come Sibelius friends, let's take off the gloves. They cannot be allowed to get away with such pure and utter greed.
>
> --
> Derek Williams
>
> www.derekwilliams.net

Hi,

If that's is true. I wouldn't want anything to do with the company of nasty CEO. If it is true I am going to vote with my money. I would never buy any other Avid product. I don't care if I have to relearn Finale or even learn Lilypond.
I am really tempted to send this CEO a F**K YOU letter, but that wouldn't be very classy. I am just going to wait and see.

--
Sibelius 7.1.2
Photoscore Ultimate 7
GPO 4
Finale 2011
M-Audio keyStudio
Windows 7 64bit

Re: OT -
Posted by Pip Williams - 06 Jul 04:19PM

Hide picture

It might be wise to wait until there is some sort of official statement from this end of the operation.
Having experienced the superb customer care that Daniel has provided (at some very unreasonable hours to boot!), my feeling is that in his own time, he will provide us with the right comment. I believe that he cares too much about Sibelius and our community!

--
Pip Williams
Sib 7.1.2 (and 6.2), Mac Pro- Dual Quad Core 2.4, Snow Leopard, 16 gig ram, GPO4, Sibelius Choirs, EWQLSO Gold & full composer's collection.

Re: OT -
Posted by Peter McAleer - 06 Jul 04:21PM

Hide picture

>I don't care if I have to relearn Finale or even learn Lilypond.

Crikey this thing is getting bad

--
Peter McAleer: composer - choral director - teacher - Sibelius user
Sibelius 7.1.2; iMac 3.1 quad + internal ssd; 12 gig memory; OS 10.7.4

Re: OT -
Posted by Organerito - 06 Jul 04:26PM

Hide picture

> >I don't care if I have to relearn Finale or even learn Lilypond.
>
> Crikey this thing is getting bad
>
> --
> Peter McAleer: composer - choral director - teacher - Sibelius user
> Sibelius 7.1.2; iMac 3.1 quad + internal ssd; 12 gig memory; OS 10.7.4

Yes,
If it is true, I don't want help Avid's CEO pay his new yatch.
--
Sibelius 7.1.2
Photoscore Ultimate 7
GPO 4
Finale 2011
M-Audio keyStudio
Windows 7 64bit

Re: OT -
Posted by jay vilnai - 06 Jul 05:02PM

Hide picture

'I don't want help Avid's CEO pay his new yacht. '

I tend to agree with this sentiment, but it goes deeper than that, and something we should all articulate to AVID: I, and others I'm sure, were relatively quick to adopt new Sibelius versions knowing that Daniel and his team are here to provide help with the glitches that are inherent in new versions, and also to listen to user feedback (see the cases of the 'R' key and the left arrow key. How many companies were so quick to reverse programming decisions like those?) Without this kind of support and care, I know I will be wary of upgrading.

--
Jay Vilnai
Macbook Pro 2.4Ghz, 8GB RAM, 750GB 7200RPM HD, OS 10.7.4, Sibelius 7.1 and 6.2, Kontakt, Vienna Strings, too many guitars

Re: OT - Title Goes Here
Posted by Maria Ljungdahl - 06 Jul 05:52PM

Hide picture

> 'I don't want help Avid's CEO pay his new yacht. '
>
> I tend to agree with this sentiment, but it goes deeper than that, and something we should all articulate to AVID: I, and others I'm sure, were relatively quick to adopt new Sibelius versions knowing that Daniel and his team are here to provide help with the glitches that are inherent in new versions, and also to listen to user feedback (see the cases of the 'R' key and the left arrow key. How many companies were so quick to reverse programming decisions like those?) Without this kind of support and care, I know I will be wary of upgrading.

As a user of the software, and a regular visitor to this forum (and the other user forum - SibeliusMusic - that was taken down with the publishing website http://sibeliusmusic.com a year ago or something), I have payed quite a lot for the buying, upgrading and using Sibelius and related services. It has been a valuable experience to learn how to use the notation program and to meet other users and the helpful people at Sibelius online. Without this forum and the knowledge and friendly attitude one is meeting here, I had probably never decided on buying this software, but had instead tried a cheap version of something else, or some open source program.

--
http://swansofsibelius.blogspot.com/

Re: OT -
Posted by jasper. franklin - 06 Jul 04:28PM

Hide picture

Dear Dear. I must get my Acorn + the last Sibelius out of my loft They are working very well still, and dont have a Ribbon on it. Jasper

--
Jasper

Re: OT -
Posted by Derek Williams - 06 Jul 05:09PM

Hide picture

This is a replay of old history, The application Composers’ Mosaic was left to die on the roadside by its developers, Mark of the Unicorn, leaving me in the lurch with hundreds of scores that no longer work in the current Apple flagship OS X. Likewise the Opcode company, deliberately assassinated by its purchasers, Gibson Guitars, and the roadkill was never taken over and so all those libraries and projects now lie fallow unless one is prepared to do what I was forced to, keep three computers with different OS for every time one needs to revisit those commissions. In neither case did the companies admit they were retiring their own products.

Sibelius used to be active in US, Japan and Australia in addition to its UK home. Since the takeover by Avid, these offices have one by one closed, and the staff decimated. Now they have knocked off the last post. It’s clear they intend to retire the product. Once again I will be faced with learning yet another application, or keeping a fourth computer just to keep Sibelius projects alive.

As for what Avid says, that public posturing is entirely to be expected. I clearly recall a certain US president saying “read my lips, no new taxes”.

I can only hope that Avid opt for a public sale, or separate a float for a standalone Sibelius corp so a consortium of investors with conscience and imagination can wrest it loose from them.

And as for Avid optimising their resources, how optimal is CEO Gary Greenfield’s salary increase from $1.2 million in 2009 to a staggering $4.8 million in 2011? Paying one man an extra $3.6 million to preside over the destruction of a conspicuously successful UK enterprise, with all the human costs inflicted upon its unquestionably loyal employees is beyond sickening. If Mr Greenfield could only learn to live within his means, that might start setting a better example to others struggling to live within theirs.

--
Derek Williams

www.derekwilliams.net

Re: OT -
Posted by Chris Wimlett - 06 Jul 05:32PM

Hide picture

It would be interesting to know what some of the high profile UK users like Howard Goodall and John Rutter (and the Finn brothers) think of all this.

Without the Daniel 'security blanket' I can't imagine ever paying money over to Avid again, or recommending that people buy Sibelius. Not sure what the alternative is though.

--
Sibelius 7.1, 6.2.0, Logic 9, Cubase 6, Mac OS X 10.7.2, iMac 3.06 Ghz, 4Gb RAM, Apogee Duet, Yamaha S90

Re: OT -
Posted by Peter McAleer - 06 Jul 05:53PM

Hide picture

Back in Sibelius 3 - 6 days many private teachers like myself were heartily recommending Sibelius to their pupils knowing full well that it would filter outwards to the schools they were attending. It's now pretty standard software in music departments at schools, certainly in kent, and I believe nationwide in UK.

But it ends here for me. How can I trust the Sibelius product now, in order to recommend it? Teachers have considerable influence and this is not a clever move.

--
Peter McAleer: composer - choral director - teacher - Sibelius user
Sibelius 7.1.2; iMac 3.1 quad + internal ssd; 12 gig memory; OS 10.7.4

Re: OT -
Posted by Chris Wimlett - 06 Jul 06:17PM

Hide picture

I completely agree, Peter. The short-sightedness of Avid's decision is breathtaking.

--
Sibelius 7.1, 6.2.0, Logic 9, Cubase 6, Mac OS X 10.7.2, iMac 3.06 Ghz, 4Gb RAM, Apogee Duet, Yamaha S90

Re: Sibelius London Office To Close
Posted by Robert Puff - 06 Jul 06:59PM (edited 08 Jul 11:09PM)

Hide picture

This is just to consolidate related links from this forum and elsewhere:

ON THIS FORUM (Sibelius Helpcenter Chat)

Another round of musical chairs...

Avid requesting feedback on Sibelius UK closure

Avid selling off Sibelius?

On the closure of the office of England and the relation-Avid Sibelius

Sibelius London Office to close

Sibelius UK to close?

MAKEMUSIC (FINALE) FORUM

Recent Avid Events… (MakeMusic OT?)

Sibelius UK closure is confirmed – killed by US owners on the 4th of July

LINKS TO AVID FINANCIALS AND OTHER ARTICLES

Sibelius UK Office Closes : Avid Selling Consumer Businesses (OF NOTE Blog, RPM Seattle)

--
robert puff
Mac OS X 10.6.8 | 2 x 2.26 GHz Quad-Core Intel Xeon, 11 GB 1066 MHz DDR3 ram

Re: Sibelius London Office To Close
Posted by David - 06 Jul 08:09PM (edited 06 Jul 08:12PM)

Hide picture

http://www.newmusicbox.org/articles/sharpen-your-quills/

Re: Sibelius London Office To Close
Posted by Jim Druckenmiller - 06 Jul 08:16PM (edited 07 Jul 01:30AM)

Hide picture

FWIW (as far as my opinion goes), I’d also recommend having a look at Robert’s link to ‘Finale’s Forum Discussion’. . . these are heartwarming comments from our music engraving colleagues, and one in particular was about the best compliment to Daniel Spreadbury that I’ve ever read. And I’ve seen a great many of them at this point. . . I’m very proud of those guys, they feel our pain in equal levels. And I find their critiques and assessment of the situation are well worth reading, and acting upon.

Re: Sibelius London Office To Close
Posted by James - 06 Jul 08:24PM

Hide picture

My heart goes out to London Sib people losing their jobs. It is just flat out wrong. And stupid beyond belief. And short sighted penny wise pound foolish. And 100% against what we the consumers of Sib want. I wish these dedicated Sib employees well.

--
Mac OS 10.6.8
Sibelius 6.2

Re: Sibelius London Office To Close
Posted by Organerito - 06 Jul 11:23PM

Hide picture

Anyone can understand that business exist to make money. I just don't understand a CEO who gets a big raise while hard-working people like Daniel are in danger just because of greed.

--
Sibelius 7.1.2
Photoscore Ultimate 7
GPO 4
Finale 2011
M-Audio keyStudio
Windows 7 64bit

Re: Sibelius London Office To Close
Posted by Mark K Sealey - 07 Jul 12:19AM (edited 07 Jul 05:12PM)

Hide picture

With respect, let's be careful not to attribute to Daniel and/or members of his, or any other (Avid), team comments, sentiments, points of view which we do not know to be his/theirs and intended for publication.

They're in a difficult enough position as it is.

I firmly believe our efforts can best be directed towards applying intelligent pressure in all the right areas and directions for the continued growth and development of the Sibelius environment.

No-one is seriously going to listen to snipes about CEO pay, whatever we may think.

This should be about the software and its continuance.

--
Mark Sealey
mid-2011 2.7 GHz, 27 inch iMac; 16 GB RAM; 10.7.4; 7.1.2

Re: Sibelius London Office To Close
Posted by Jim Druckenmiller - 07 Jul 01:31AM (edited 07 Jul 01:32AM)

Hide picture

> With respect, let's be careful not to attribute to Daniel and/or members of his, or any other (Avid), team comments, sentiments, points of view which we do not know to be his/theirs and intended for publication.
>
> They're in a difficult enough position as it is.
>

That's a good call Mark. I've deleted my comment, and if you do the same then perhaps no harm was done, or certainly no remnants of it will remain.

I'd feel terrible to contribute to this disaster any furthur, in that manner. And ultimately I'm only trying to help, as so many others are as well.

Thanks for keeping on your toes, even though I wasn't. You make a good point, and I should probably gather my composure.

Take Care,

Jim

Re: Sibelius London Office To Close
Posted by jasper. franklin - 07 Jul 11:00AM

Hide picture

It is just like the end of the Acorn Computer We where told by Sibelius to just buy a new computer with windows and wait till Sibelius was put on to windows. Sibelius user's all over the world where just left all on ther own.I thank Derek and others fighting for us But I dont trust any one at Sibelius ( Finn's) to come out and help us. Jasper

--
Jasper

Re: Sibelius London Office To Close
Posted by Tony Cliff - 07 Jul 11:09AM

Hide picture

Acorn computers sadly disappeared and this was nothing to do with Sibelius and completely outsie their control. If Sibelius had stayed with that computer system they also would have disappeared. Consequently they had to rewrite quickly for PC and Mac systems so that they could continue and prosper.

Who knows what the future will hold now for Sibelius after this brutal and wrong-headed decision from Avid.

Re: Sibelius London Office To Close
Posted by aaronnt1 - 07 Jul 01:06PM

Hide picture

My god, just saw this terrible news. Bloody corporatists are everywhere, money money money! Makes me so mad. Daniel and the team were the lifeblood of Sibelius, without their support and truly in-depth knowledge, Sibelius will now start to rot. I only hope they can continue in some other capacity with Sibelius.

If they did decide to introduce their own competing product, I would get on board straight away!!

Re: Sibelius London Office To Close
Posted by Derek Williams - 07 Jul 01:11PM (edited 07 Jul 01:42PM)

Hide picture

Aaron, and others posting here, you'll soon become aware if you're not already that several posts are now running in the forum on this calamity. We need to marshall this outpouring of feeling and funnel it into something constructive, that is likely also to be effective.

I'll copy below my posting to another page:

I and another member are currently looking at strategies involving high profilers, with an online approach envisaged, and I extend this invitation also to any who might wish to become involved in a co-ordinated campaign to rescue Sibelius.

As an Avid employee, Daniel can't get personally involved in discussions on this forum owned by his employer that are likely to criticise his employer. Given the delicacy of the issues at stake, there are consequences not only for himself, but for his colleagues.

So, for now we are going to ground to work out how best to deal with this disaster.

My contact details are all to be found at http://www.derekwilliams.net/contact

--
Derek Williams

www.derekwilliams.net

Re: Sibelius London Office To Close
Posted by John White - 07 Jul 03:29PM

Hide picture

Looks as if I shall have to go back to Noteworthy and have another try at linking it up with GPO or make a further attempt to learn the dreaded Finale. Anyway, I'm so glad that my son didn't take up my suggestion of applying for the vacancy at the Old Toy Factory last year.
I certainly wish the development team well and hope that some how their jobs can be saved.
John

Re: Sibelius London Office To Close
Posted by Chris Wimlett - 07 Jul 05:35PM (edited 07 Jul 05:40PM)

Hide picture

John, I'd hold off before making a decision. My first reaction was that I didn't want anything to do with Avid ever again, but I've spent the day revisiting the alternatives to Sibelius and none really match up. Finale is the closest, but I'm a former Finale user and don't really want to go back (though would do if things turned out badly with Sibelius).

Cubase was nearly destroyed by Pinnacle, but (to me anyway) have done well under Yamaha. Maybe there's a Yamaha waiting in the wings for Sibelius.

--
Sibelius 7.1, 6.2.0, Logic 9, Cubase 6, Mac OS X 10.7.3, iMac 3.06 Ghz, 4Gb RAM, Apogee Duet, Yamaha S90

Re: Sibelius London Office To Close
Posted by David O'Rourke - 07 Jul 10:18PM

Hide picture

An old football quote "Never change a winning team!"

--
David O'Rourke
iMac 2.93 GHz Intel Core i7, 8GB 1333 MHz DDR3
MacBook Pro, 2.2 Ghz Intel Core Duo, 2 GB 10.6.2

Re: Sibelius London Office To Close
Posted by aaronnt1 - 08 Jul 09:00AM

Hide picture

Yes, that's the problem, I'd love to boycott Avid but Sibelius is without peer in terms of it's compatibility with my sample libraries and the soundsets produced by Jonathan Loving. All my projects are reliant upon it. Even if there were another product that could do all that, I dread the thought of having to learn a new program. I really am held captive here...

Anyway, I fired off an email to Mr CEO copied to the others so I await a response...

Re: Sibelius London Office To Close
Posted by aaronnt1 - 08 Jul 05:34PM

Hide picture

Well I got a response from Mr Greenfield himself (although it's entirely possible it's a standard response from his office.

This was his response:

"I appreciate reaching out and sharing your thoughts. Our Professional Audio Products & Solutions team has been carefully listening to feedback in the Sibelius community. In fact, we’ve noticed, many questions about Finsbury Park and how that impacts the Sibelius product family. Our VP of Audio Products & Solutions, Martin Kloiber, has begun an outreach to the Sibelius community that we’re looking forward to continuing for quite some time. Martin’s note is posted on our Avid Inside Out blog which you can read, and we hope you add your feedback to: http://community.avid.com/blogs/avid/archive/2012/07/07/sibelius-community.aspx.

Thanks for being such a passionate Sibelius customer.

Gary"

Re: Sibelius London Office To Close
Posted by sakari lindhen - 08 Jul 05:49PM

Hide picture

> Well I got a response from Mr Greenfield himself (although it's entirely possible it's a standard response from his office.
>
> This was his response:
>
> "I appreciate reaching out and sharing your thoughts. Our Professional Audio Products & Solutions team has been carefully listening to feedback in the Sibelius community. In fact, we’ve noticed, many questions about Finsbury Park and how that impacts the Sibelius product family. Our VP of Audio Products & Solutions, Martin Kloiber, has begun an outreach to the Sibelius community that we’re looking forward to continuing for quite some time. Martin’s note is posted on our Avid Inside Out blog which you can read, and we hope you add your feedback to: http://community.avid.com/blogs/avid/archive/2012/07/07/sibelius-community.aspx.
>
> Thanks for being such a passionate Sibelius customer.
>
> Gary"
>

Quite a change from how he answered MY email, which was, to paraphrase, 'talented programmers live elsewhere than London'...maybe we ARE having an effect.

Re: Sibelius London Office To Close
Posted by Derek Williams - 08 Jul 08:44PM (edited 09 Jul 02:09AM)

Hide picture

This is duplicated across all posts on this topic:

It is not me the consumer, but the development team that has made Sibelius great. Its success among the great composers of Hollywood, theatre, symphony and pop as the world's most intuitive and popular scorewriter results from their unequivocal commitment and unique talent. Shutting down the nerve centre of this confluence of genetic brilliance is an act of such banality, expedience, and corporate vandalism, that by this act, Avid has proven itself unworthy to marshal such a resource into the future.

While the board of Avid has been busy shutting down Sibelius, with all that connotes for the staff in human terms, its CEO has meantime quadrupled his salary without a scintilla of frugality. There is only one conclusion to be drawn. This board are feathering their own nests while presiding over the destruction of one of the greatest software accomplishments the world has ever known. Their blandishments and appeasements are to be entirely disbelieved, like the mendacious Bush's notorious "read my lips, no new taxes".

Before Avid got hold of it in 2006, Sibelius had won the Queens Innovation Award; its founders, the Finn twins both received MBE for their achievement. Along with television, penicillin, tarmacadam, anaesthesia, the railway engine, and Alan Turing's computer - the very machine that it lives on, Sibelius is a uniquely British creation. It cannot be transplanted in Kiev or Asia, with all its development team pensioned off. Even if retained, staff clearly are not going to uproot themselves with all the family commitments they surely will have.

When you consider that this brilliant and dedicated team have been told their place of employment is being shut down, what else have they to do but immediately begin seeking employment elsewhere? Such talent will obviously find alternative employment in a heartbeat, and maybe they already have for all I know. Therefore, even if Avid now relent, this decision whose effects have barely begun to be realised by our vast, worldwide community, has proven to us "by their deeds shall ye know them".

Make no mistake: under Avid, Sibelius is doomed. The bestoutcome will be a sale of the asset while it still has value. As the world's best selling scorewriter, Sibelius may well be a cash cow for Avid right now, but once the development team have departed, it will implode, suffering the fate of its forebears, MOTU Composers Mosaic, Encore and Opcode Vision.

I therefore propose that pressure on Avid should now focus solely on persuading them to sell this enterprise. It will be attractive to buyers with vision and a conscience, and it can be a tax write-down for Avid. No-one can retain confidence in the Avid company that through bylaw, has progressively insulated itself from its shareholders, repeatedly posted losses, all the while quadrupling the salary of its top CEO to $4.8 million per annum. People like this surround themselves with obsequious yes men, and have no understanding of their staff as human beings. To such executives, people are mere servants, machines to discarded just as soon as they can be replaced with slave labour offshore.

Profit is a perfectly acceptable motivation for any business, but profit without vision is a Highway to Hell. That's where Avid is headed in my estimation, along with its reprehensible self serving policies and the directors who dreamed them up.

I encourage anyone with with the means, knowledge and power to move in the direction I advocate above, to act swiftly before Avid assassinate the goose that lays the golden egg. They are not to be trusted.

--
Derek Williams

www.derekwilliams.net

Re: Sibelius London Office To Close
Posted by MPD mike - 09 Jul 12:59PM

Hide picture

Wow, I can't believe what I am hearing about the changes that are happening! If a company owns a successful product like Sibelius, why would they risk everything by breaking up the organisation that makes it so successful?

I moved over from Finale because I saw Sibelius as being the better, more user-friendly product. The prospect is that things will now become uncertain, with Sibelius being developed by new people, who probably will not have the skill and understanding of the present team.

This is really sad, and bad news. I feel sorry for all those in the music business who rely on Sibelius for their livelihoods, and for a great team that made Sibelius the fantastic product it is today.

Re: Sibelius London Office To Close
Posted by Loch - 10 Jul 08:46AM

Hide picture

Like MPD, I moved to Sibelius from Finale, but for different reasons. Being at a point where I needed to upgrade my Finale, I became convinced that my money would be better placed with Sibelius 7. A big part of that decision was how I was treated before the sale by Daniel and others in what is apparently the UK office. Following my purchase, the support I received from the technical staff and others on this forum turned me from a frequent doubter to an enthusiast regarding Sibelius.

Unless Avid makes this transition seamless to us users, keeps the people we have come to depend on, and addresses expectations of new releases in the near future to fix the many issues inherent in the release of V7 - I will go back to Finale in a second. My upgrade offer from them probably just got a bit more attractive. I'm still early enough in the learning curve to not have wasted too much time on a product who's future has not been made clear to me. Not too late to switch back and therefore cut my losses in the long run. This isn't a word processor.
--
Loch VT
Sibelius 7.1.2,Dell XPSL502X Laptop,64 bit,i5-2410M,6GBR,2.3GHz,Win7

Re: Sibelius London Office To Close
Posted by Chris Wimlett - 10 Jul 09:01AM (edited 10 Jul 09:02AM)

Hide picture

Loch raises a good point - I'm on Finale 2007 but the upgrade to Finale 2012 would only cost slightly more than I paid for the Sibelius 6 to 7 upgrade. Avid should bear in mind that former Finale users have a ready escape route (though I for one would be very reluctant to be forced to take it).

--
Sibelius 7.1, 6.2.0, Logic 9, Cubase 6, Mac OS X 10.7.3, iMac 3.06 Ghz, 4Gb RAM, Apogee Duet, Yamaha S90

Re: Sibelius London Office To Close
Posted by Organerito - 10 Jul 09:15AM

Hide picture

I am also a Finale user. When I saw Sibelius 7, I knew it was the right moment to get Sibelius. I would had never changed for Sibelius 6. Sib 7 is far more enjoyable than Finale.
I am one of those that if Sibelius stays with Avid, I'll go back to Finale. I cannot trust Avid anymore after what they have done. If another company buys Sibelius, I'll wait and see.
I guess I'll start learning Lilypond, just in case.

--
Sibelius 7.1.2,Photoscore Ultimate 7,GPO 4,
Finale 2011, M-Audio keyStudio, Windows 7 64bit

Re: Sibelius London Office To Close
Posted by Derek Williams - 10 Jul 11:15AM (edited 10 Jul 11:19AM)

Hide picture

While the outright purchase price of Sibelius is higher than Finale, the update/upgrade path is far cheaper with Sibelius in the long run. Major Sibelius upgrades come every 3-5 years, whereas Finale put their hand out for upgrade money every year, hence the year being part of the product name: "Finale 2006", "Finale 2007", "Finale 2008", "Finale 2009", "Finale 2010" DVDs are all sitting largely unused on my shelf. Also there are earlier pieces I scored in Finale prior to 2005 that are a mess if opened in Finale 2010.

Cumulatively, Finale + Upgrades costs far more than Sibelius. I never got around to updating to "Finale 2011", but I do remember once ticking the box "...just to be up to date with the latest version," in response to their survey question "Why did you buy this edition of Finale?"

I don't disrespect Finale at all, it's a magnificent piece of software and worthy challenger to Sibelius, what's more, as that old chestnut says, "Some of my best friends use Finale." However the only time I go to it is when a client comes along with work previously scored in it, and it may make sense not to recreate the score, even with the .XML transcription so much improved.

--
Derek Williams

www.derekwilliams.net

Re: Sibelius London Office To Close
Posted by Martin P. Kellogg - 10 Jul 06:41PM

Hide picture

> there are earlier pieces I scored in Finale prior to 2005 that are a mess if opened in Finale 2010.

By contrast, I can open things I scored in Sibelius 1.4 and they look great in Sibelius 7.

--
Martin

Sibelius 7.1.2 & 6.2, Core i5 M560 2.67 GHz, 8 GB, Windows 7 Pro SP1 64-bit.
Sibelius 6.2, Core 2 Duo 2.26 GHz, 3 GB usable, Windows XP Pro SP3 32-bit (rarely used now).
Shared second monitor (1920x1200), KeyRig 49, Echo Indigo IOx audio interface. Year 2012

Re: Sibelius London Office To Close
Posted by Andrew Palmer - 11 Jul 04:58AM

Hide picture

Very sad day indeed and I can't believed that they (Avid) have made a decision and confirm to close down the office.Its doesn;t cross my mind and sounds nasty.On what ground they have made a decision, only God knows.Its really shocking and no word to described.I felt sympathethic especially to Dainel Spreadbury and his teamates who tireless working out with thousands of client across the world and not easy task to work out and also London Sib people who be losing their jobs. I don;t know what to say about Fins twins brother founder, genius and brilliant idea of coming up better layout for Sibelius- matter with any version.Sympathethic to all sibelius user across the world be proffesional,music teachers,church musician,orchestrator,copyist and so on.I hope and pray there will be someone willing to purchase Sibelius Company and retained back all the staff including our customer director Daniel Spreadbury and his teamates and refreshed it,proceed with new version.Anway, I hope Avid may reconsider this decision and approach in friendly environment.

Andrew M Palmer

Sibelius 6.2, Cakewalk Sonar X1 & Fosurite 8i6

Re: Sibelius London Office To Close
Posted by Alexander Plötz - 11 Jul 09:42AM

Hide picture

Hi Andrew,

feel free to add your thoughts here, where there is an ever so slight chance that it could make a difference.

Alex
___________

Sibelius 7.1.2 ǁ Win7 (32 bit) ǁ www.notenlektorat.de

Re: Sibelius London Office To Close
Posted by Derek Williams - 16 Jul 11:38PM

Hide picture

Folks, there is a Facebook page in beta up now - please Visit, Like, Share and Post your Ideas, Suggestions and Comments for all you're worth:

https://www.facebook.com/SaveSibelius

Thanks to Richie Vitale for concept and design. Richie and I are admin for now - expressions of interest and ideas welcome!

--
Derek Williams

www.derekwilliams.net

Re: Sibelius London Office To Close
Posted by Derek Williams - 18 Jul 04:00PM

Hide picture

**UPDATE**

I have only just today discovered this A-list.

http://www.sibelius.com/products/sibeliusedu/users.html

If anyone knows how to contact any of this lot, can you please forward details (ideally email) to me? Also, any others not on the list but of equivalent fame.

Also FYI we now own www.savesibelius.com - links directly to our Save Sibelius Facebook presence.

--
Derek Williams

www.derekwilliams.net

Re: Sibelius London Office To Close
Posted by Derek Williams - 18 Jul 05:03PM

Hide picture

**Newsflash: Sources tell us that it was Chris Gahagan who actually closed the Sibelius London office. His email is [email protected]

Please copy all the emails you sent to Gary Greenfield anew to [email protected] and let us know how you get on.

--
Derek Williams

www.derekwilliams.net

Re: Sibelius London Office To Close
Posted by Derek Williams - 25 Jul 05:34AM

Hide picture

Dear Sibelians

To understand the full story behind Avid's shutdown of Sibelius UK, and to take such action as you see fit, please visit your very own, brand new website we have launched today in order to help bring focus to this crisis:

http://www.sibeliususers.org

The Sibelius Users website includes a full background, financials on Avid, a Change.Org petition, links to our Facebook 'Save Sibelius' page, and the ability to send an email instantly to all the decision makers at Avid with a single click. Also provided are Avid media sites, and local fax numbers and physical addresses for Avid offices worldwide. We implore you to take whatever action you feel able to. Every click helps.

Please share the Website, the Facebook page and the Petition far and wide. Only you can stop this shutdown from occurring, by the strength of your arguments and the sheer strength of your numbers. With nearly half a million users worldwide, our Sibelius community has the power to make Avid sit up and listen to us.
--
Derek Williams

www.derekwilliams.net